Speaker 1: 0:00

Sorry, I'm moving away from the mic. So it's kind of, it's just, I don't know if that'll make it into the episode. God, you're such a nerd. Hello listeners. And I know it's been a while since you've heard our voices. This is common all sauce and this is Tiberius caucus and this is probably just going to be a short one, uh, to explain what's going on. It's, it's fine. We're not getting a, we're not getting a podcast divorce. Yes. Things have been kind of hectic and overwhelming up here.

Speaker 2: 0:51

Yes. Both personally and within, you know, political organizing and yeah, it's been a, it's been kind of a rough time. Uh, we do have a couple of episodes that we need to edit and get out, so you'll be seeing those in the feed, uh, very shortly. And, uh, we are back on a podcast recording schedule. So what kind of things or this is season three?

Speaker 1: 1:19

Well, okay, so we're halfway to syndication. Yes. Okay. So this episode may not be very long because we didn't come into it with a specific topic besides a, sorry, we've been away. Um, things may be a little irregular for a short while while we get back up to speed. I'm trying to learn how to edit. So type areas won't be the only one doing it. But if you've ever had to listen to your own voice on an answering machine or voicemail, you know that it's very hard to listen to your own voice and do anything. So I'm just full of excuses. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 1:57

What I've found it helps if you dissociate your voice with you. Okay? So I always think of it as the voice I hear on a recording is not the voice I hear in my head. So obviously it's just not the right, it's not the same person

Speaker 1: 2:09

you heard it here first. The best way to edit a podcast is to take some cattlemen association. So for those of you who are pets or horses, um, podcasting is definitely for you. Just talk to your vet. Ask of ketamine is right for you. I left coast media endorses drug use kids. If you're going to use drugs, please try and be safer about it because we don't have very many comrades in the world and it would really suck to lose some of view or any of you. So Gabby, be safe. Fuck. What book would you want to talk about?

Speaker 2: 2:53

Uh, it's so, I mean there's a couple things, um, that that had been sort of like kicking around that I kind of want to talk about but don't really have an entire show worth. And I don't know if we want to drag in somebody else to do like 10 15 minutes on. Um, in one of those things is just this kind of a gripe about left Twitter left book online leftism sort of, kind of generally, which, you know, we've, we've done a little bit about before. Uh, and I just kind of want to rant about it cause it's not good. I mean, so to, to give a concrete example, um, shortly after Anthony Bordain died, uh, there was a couple of left assholes on Twitter who were basically like, basically what they were saying was that Anthony Bordain wasn't imperialist boot licker and they were glad he died. It's up there. Like I said. Yeah. And it's just like Anthony Bourdain was probably not a socialist. Anthony Bordain did have some bad opinions. He was on CNN. There were a couple of things he said that, you know, he probably, um, never actually looked into just to see whether they were like propaganda stick lies that the American government put out. That having been said, he wasn't a piece of shit. He wasn't trash guy like there, there's really no reason to, to actually be going after, uh, going after somebody like that, who by all accounts was just, you know, a very like, uh, loving humanitarian guy. He just didn't share our politics necessarily. And like I have, I have two issues with this. Firstly is a moral issue, um, because as, as both you and I are, are very, uh, keen to promote kindness is important. Kindness doesn't like, as you say, kindness doesn't mean just like letting somebody be an asshole. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 5:08

There's a difference between kindness and niceness. In my head in the niceness ends up where are you having a tone argument like that? Oh you should, you should be nice when you disagree with somebody. Whereas kindness is aware that sometimes disagreements do get heated, but at the central of it you still, there is still love in that. Yeah. And as far as the, the, the Bourdain stuff goes, I don't like that. Anybody experiences that much pain or you know, any, ideally nobody would have ever experienced pain ever. But that is definitely not going to happen. But that anybody is in that amount of pain experiences, that amount of pain even, you know, when John McCain dies, I hope that t dies painlessly because I don't think that wishing awful horribleness on people that we don't like is a constructive thing in the long term. I mean, in the short term I'll say, you know, oh I hope so and so gets an intractable case of eyebrow dandruff or I, I hope that every time so and so goes to a gas station and tries to clean their windshield. The windshield Washer dunk thing is just full of dirty water and it doesn't do anything. But I'm not going to say I chose other eyebrow listened to, but I'm, I'm not going to say, you know, I, I hope that somebody that I dislike is in such horrific pain than even like morphine and fentanyl can't ease it cause in the long run, I think that spirals that spirals us down rather than up. And I know that I sometimes do not actually live according to those principles. I'm trying, but it's, you know, hurt people, hurt other people. And sometimes it sucks having to be the big, the bigger person than having to be the one who's like, no, it's fine. Be well. Yeah. Cause you really, really want to give as good as you get. There's also, you get a lot more attention for dunking.

Speaker 2: 7:24

You do. Um, and, and it's just, it's so to, uh, to go back to like the two reasons. Like the first one is, is uh, there's a moral argument which is, you know, kind of what you were talking about like, cause for me, which in which we talked about before, socialism is about like love and empathy. Like that's, that's really the purpose. I think the, the sort of like the root cause of our politics like that, that's where our politics comes from. The second one is, is just kind of a practical thing. Like does it actually help what we're trying to do too? Shit. All over the, the name of someone who is largely beloved over something that is probably not all that justifiable. That is a good question cause I don't think it does.

Speaker 1: 8:21

You can point out that somebody who is gone had problematic and unhelpful and sometimes down route downright harmful things. Like I get irritated sometimes when I see people quoting Gandhi because he had some not so great takes, especially when it came to race. But they come to a point where you end up being the wet blanket who's like, oh yeah, all of your heroes. They all suck. Yeah. But I mean there's a difference between that and uh,

Speaker 2: 8:56

essentially spitefully cheering on somebody's death. Yeah. Like that. And that, that specifically because you know, you bring up gone. I, there's, there's a lot of things that, that I really like kind of low key hate Gandhi over. I think that a lot of the things that, that he did and push for four, we're ultimately, we're ultimately bad for the decolonization process of South Asia. You know, he had some really good pithy quotes he did. He had some good pithy quotes. There are some good things that he said. There were also a lot of bad things that he said and did wrong, which, you know, it's probably a discussion for a different time, but, so we're not saying that Anthony Bourdain was Gandhi. No, we're not saying that Anthony Bourdain was gone. D I think it was mostly a good dude from, from everything that I've seen, it seems like he was mostly a good dude. His ball is x, weren't perfect. Um, but like he probably did some shitty things cause everybody does some shitty things. Oh, he definitely did some shady things. Like I read this book but, but he's not McCain, he's not Kissinger like, and, and there's, there's a lot of people who are going to be running around and celebrating and praising the death of somebody like Kissinger. And you can kind of make the same argument about whether or not like morality aside, you can kind of make the same argument about whether or not that is a, a practically worthwhile thing to do. And it's, it's kind of one of those gradation things, this human being's impact on the world, on that good or bad kind of thing. Well, yeah, there's, there's part of that, there's, you know, how the people who are sympathetic and leaning towards us, is this something that would cause them to want to reject the association with us? And is it something that we feel is important enough to take a stand over regardless of whether or not we're pushing certain people away who are farther to the right of us. You know, these kinds of things. I think it's a very clear cut case and Anthony Bourdain's case that it's just practically oh really full hardy, spiteful thing to do that is I think, not only morally wrong in this case, but is also practically wrong in this case. And thankfully that person didn't have, um, that meant, I think it was like maybe a dozen and a half, two doesn't likes retweets, that kind of thing. So it's not like it was like a big account or anything like that, but I'm, I'm just using this as a very specific example for the kind of like spicy takes. Yeah, it was, it's not even just like spicy takes, like there's, there's spicy tastes and their spitefully spicy takes and, and it's, it's this reliance upon hatred, belittling, dehumanizing in spite that I think is just highly, highly toxic. And, and I, I really hate it coming out of, you know, comrades who, who I think share my politics and, and believe in, you know, an an empathetic building up of humanity doing things that, that I think are run contrary to that. Both on a moral and a practical level.

Speaker 1: 12:30

Yeah, I think there's some stuff encouraging that kind of behavior. I mean, tongue dunking on somebody is usually takes less effort than helping somebody learn where them wrong or help them learn why, what they're saying, what, how they are behaving may not be helpful. People tend to really not like it when people come and say, oh you're wrong. And also, I mean we all have real difficulty opening ourselves up and being empathetic towards each other. I think some of that is because you do it and you will get beaten back time and time again. I'm not going to say that it takes a huge amount of strength to keep doing that because then this just like me saying, I am awesome. I have so much strength cause I keep doing it. But it's, it's hard. And sometimes I wonder why the fuck I'm doing it right?

Speaker 2: 13:30

Yeah. Well, I wouldn't say that it takes strength necessarily, but it takes a conscious effort because as you say at the places like Twitter are sort of like structurally built around not supporting that kind of behavior

Speaker 1: 13:46

and when you have made a mistake or when you've behave upset, done something that causes like this cognitive dissonance, this difference between your concept of yourself as a good person and this behavior that you did that was not the behavior of a good person. Um, the easiest way for many of us to resolve that cognitive dissonance is to like either double down on it or resist anybody who is trying to call us in about it or to say, well, it's just Twitter. It's just the Internet. It doesn't fucking matter. Sometimes it doesn't fucking matter. But there are other human beings on the other side of all of those screens. Some of them hold very bad opinions and very bad views. But I think if there are, if there are people who have the capacity to do the really hard work of helping people turn themselves around, I don't know if there are, because sometimes it's going to be a really hard like can you read belt? Can somebody who has sent death threats, can they redeem themselves? Can they achieve redemption? I mean somebody who's had a spicy take on Twitter, that's probably going to be easier for them to be to come back around and say, I did this and this hood so and so and I'm sorry and I won't do it again. Versus somebody who is an unrepentant Nazi, like how can you redeem that? How can they redeem that?

Speaker 2: 15:22

Well, I mean they can redeem it by first becoming repentant and then working to undo the harm that they've done. You get to the rhythm, the repentance,

Speaker 1: 15:33

like is it something where we, I feel personally like I, there's no point to my spending my energy on that because especially our marginalized comrades and especially in my experience, people who are women or who were raised as women, we sometimes spend a lot of time holding the hands of more privileged people and very slowly guiding them to see that privilege and how they've hurt others. And if it's that difficult just to do that with somebody who is a comrade, somebody who agrees with you on like 89 to 95% of shit. Is it even possible or worthwhile to do that with somebody who disagrees with you on your value? Is having an identity in being a human being? I know this is kind of off the take off the discussion topic of, of left Twitter and toxic online environments.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Well, I mean I don't think it's, I don't think it's that too far off because I think the response that I'm going to say to that is a lot of the justification for the toxic behavior that I was talking about earlier. So, so the way that I would respond to that, especially when you're talking about places online, places like Twitter, you're not going to deradicalize a Nazi on Twitter. That is just not going to happen. Um, the, the process of Oh deradicalizing somebody from, you know, uh, white supremacy and fascism has to come through long term face to face, person to person concerted effort and largely it is not as effective coming from somebody who is a part of one of their outgroups. It has to come from someone who it doesn't have to but it is most effective when it comes from someone who was at one point, one of them, part of that ingroup part a part of that problem and it because they, if they were there, they know how that mindset works. They know what happens to, to radicalize someone in that way. And they are able to use that knowledge and empathy with that person to help that help guide them towards a more, how do I want to put this, a better self understanding, like trying to get them to understand themselves and their own issues and bring them to a place where they are not externalizing those issues onto an oppressed other. So when you're talking about like interacting with somebody online on Twitter, who is like an unrepentant Nazi, I'm not gonna say it's a good thing to call them to call them a shit shirt or whatever, or like, you know, just, just be incredibly like nasty to them. I'm also not saying don't do that. It honestly doesn't really matter all that much in terms of dare radicalism in terms of either pushing them further to the right or bringing them back from the right. It's, it's really, it's kind of a moot point, you know? And also we're not saying do or don't do such a thing because we don't tell people what to do. Just in general. Yeah. There's that. Um, well we try not to. Yeah. So then so then a lot of people take that kind of, that kind of of thought like, well, you know, these, these people who are so far gone are there, there's, there's no real benefit to me treating them like a person. They're never going to come over to my side. You know, and, and I, I get all of this like social validation out of like dunking on them in front of all of my, my other validation gang members. And you know, that starts to creep further and further away from the hardcore reactionary, right. And starts to creep further and further into, you know, the center right. Liberals to the centrist to like the scent, the sock Dems and the center left. And then to other, other leftists, other people who, who don't share your particular tendency, who you think are wrong and stupid and parroting imperialist propaganda or boot licking red police. Like there's, it becomes a tighter and tighter circle of, of who he is acceptable of who is acceptable to, to, to treat like people and who it's acceptable to be toxic too. So that's, that's kind of, that's, you know, and then going back to what you were saying about the best person

Speaker 1: 20:48

to approach an unrepentant Nazi to try and get them to the repentance point would be somebody who themselves escape from that. So the best irony poisoning deprogrammer would be somebody who was once irony poisoned and recovered from it. Or I try to be, I'm trying to be clear that sometimes there is just so much shit going on that you cannot take things seriously. And I 18 months or so ago, I even wrote something about that, about why I was a soft irony kind of person, why I could not take anything seriously, why I could not engage with or have empathy online because I was already using so much of it offline to try and make the world better. And it was very much a cry for people to not think that I'm actually a shit Lord. And gradually I feel like I shed some cynicism and began focusing on a smaller area of things that I knew I could affect because I can't affect Paul Manafort. I cannot, I cannot change Peter dows mind. Although I did reply to him suggesting that if he wanted to chat about this thing, my, my dms are open. Um, did he ever take you up on that? I don't know. It was like two days ago when he, he posted a tweet saying, Dems, look at who we are. We, we drone children. And I replied to that saying, you know, as somebody who was, and I think still is a registered Democrat, uh, if you ever want to talk about this and about maybe other ways to affect change in the world, my dms are open and we'll know because I never want to get back to that. Okay. He, he never got back to me, but my dad's is still open. Peter, if you're listening, he definitely listens. Yeah. But I don't pretend like pixelated boat is going to suddenly become like my friend and want to talk about how to be kind of all that. I'm going to go and do coke with Chapo and like all of a sudden everybody will have an epiphany. But if I can maybe be either a good example or a bad example, just some sort of example that might help. I don't know. You want to talk about petered out

Speaker 2: 23:17

right before I move onto that. I just want to say that, um, I am definitely hashtags, sincerity, posting and, and to be honest, it's, it's mostly for like my own mental wellbeing. Uh, like I, I have spent, so like for almost as long as there's been an internet, I have been a, an irony poisoned meme stir.

Speaker 1: 23:41

Yeah, we talked about that a little bit with salary when we talked about kill all normies and yeah, that book it turns out wasn't very good, but I feel like I learned some stuff from it, but also I'm realizing that I am not really a very good, uh, evaluating sources and stuff. I mean, sources spelled S. Auc, e. S I can evaluate but not s. O. U. R. C. E. S.

Speaker 2: 24:06

Well, yeah, it's like I, I spent so long pretending to like being or pretending to be. Sometimes it's difficult to, to tell the difference. Someone who is, is so nihilistic and just doesn't care. And then you know, you're constantly distancing yourself from like having real emotions and you really, at least I did. I really internalize that and it was, it was to my own, uh, the detriment of my own mental health.

Speaker 1: 24:38

And it really hurts to like sit with your feelings and experience them.

Speaker 2: 24:43

Yeah. It w it hurts in the short term, but to, to like sit there and experience them and, and just sort of accept them for what they are and not constantly be, be pushing them away into a place where you never deal with it. That's I think the longterm worse for me. Other people are different. This is, this is my own personal experience here.

Speaker 1: 25:05

Yeah. Like the tendency towards irony and such like is in part a reaction to that kind of pain. But sometimes you do have to deal with deal with shit.

Speaker 2: 25:15

Yeah. Deal with, deal with what vaguely points at everything. It's, yeah. It's just a lot. It is, it is a lot. Uh, yeah. And so that's why I'm, I, I'm just, I can't do that kind of like a nihilistic, absurdist drill, Chapo irony left Twitter. Like I, I just can't do it. Like I am so, so done with it that I don't even really interact with it anymore. I actually have, I've drilled blocked on Twitter just cause I, I, I got so sick of seeing and constantly retweeted onto my timeline. I have most of, I have most of the Chapo boys blocked on Twitter because they're the same thing except, you know, socialist. But yeah. So that's, that's why I'm missing Saturday poster and, and I am, I am, if you read my tweets online, oftentimes painfully sincere about my politics and my personal positions, so you know, if you're going to follow me, they kinda got to be aware of that.

Speaker 1: 26:22

Sometimes I post pictures of birds that are funny. Yes. That look like cotton balls, a googly eyes posted on it. I love that. Burb really sucks that we are destroying a world that has creatures like that in it. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, about an hour of talking about Twitter. Yes. I feel like that's probably enough. Talking about Twitter for like a week.

Speaker 2: 26:49

Yeah. Um, so going back to dao, and this is sort of tangentially related to Twitter, but mostly not. Um, there has been a lot of like, is it the Trump era has been incredibly tumultuous for Democrats who are the putative left political party in America, which doesn't say a whole lot because America, American politics don't have a left anymore, at least not yet. But there's, you know, you, you get some people, um, who are very, very centrist. I'm very pro status quo, very anti progressive if into things that they are actually doing and saying if not their rhetorical stance, if you get what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 27:44

And the, everything was fine for me back when Obama was president. So let's just put it back to that way kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 27:49

Right. So, so when somebody like Peter Dow comes out and actually starts talking about how a lot of the problems that we're seeing right now in the quote unquote Trump era are basically continuations of the awful, awful things every American administration has ever gotten into. And I kind of want to get your, your take on sort of what, what you see as, as, as sort of like the, what do we make of this either in terms of how we respond or what we think about the people who are saying these things.

Speaker 1: 28:30

Well I think a lot of them are people for whom like the Obama years or years before Trump, we're comfortable or at least we're not dangerous and now they are beginning to see what many people have known for years that America was never great. And there is, that's hard to realize, especially when you are white and fragile. And I feel like when people begin to realize these things, the best thing that we can do is, is to validate like that realizations and maybe help them sit with it, maybe helped them realize that, help them deal with this realization and then present maybe small things that they can do to help themselves feel better and help improve the world. Like that might be what[inaudible] is good for that info. A as a, as a gateway drug, you realized that healthcare has been shitty ever since. Ever and get involved with m four a and then while you're getting involved with them for a may be some more radical comrades, we'll help you move left, but the people who, I guess it's false consciousness jamming their fingers in their ears and going, no, we must maintain things the way that they have always been because the way they've always been up until now has been fine for me. I don't know really trickling small pieces of evidence their way to show that no, this was happening before. This will happen and continue to happen unless we do something.

Speaker 2: 30:17

Is there a difference between the way that we approach like just your standard Twitter user or you know, person in our life who doesn't really have a whole lot of power versus the way that we approached somebody like Peter Dow?

Speaker 1: 30:33

Yes, because when you approach somebody like Peter Dow, you pretty much know that they're not going to be paying attention to you because they don't have to. I think the more palace somebody has, the more afraid you are of losing it. And so the more resistant you will be to hearing things that may deal, legitimize that power. And also the, the thing that when somebody critiques your actions or critique something that you believe in, it's very, very easy or in fact it's very hard not to see that as an attack on you yourself. I don't know. I, I wouldn't be doing this. I wouldn't be saying these things. I wouldn't be doing these things if I didn't think that that we could be better.

Speaker 2: 31:17

I would have probably moved up then the Mendocino coast, you know, and lived somewhere out in the middle of nowhere on a tiny homestead farm. Like, to be honest, if I didn't think that, um, you know, being engaged in a political left had any chance of actually changing the world for the better. Yeah. I, I wouldn't have stuck around.

Speaker 1: 31:44

I, I don't think that we're going to see a revolution in, in my lifetime at least. Um, but I feel like one of the things that we can do is create a space where the, the crushing pain of existing under capitalism and the patriarchy and white supremacy and imperialism where that crushing pain is slightly less. Even if that space is only a space right now for a few thousand people, we keep growing it and keep strengthening it and in that space we can grow what will be the revolution or maybe just building that space is the revolution and we need to redefine what revolution is, but also how much energy are we going to spend on trying to convince centrists when meanwhile they are children in cages. Can we maybe spend that energy on getting the children out of cages? Maybe

Speaker 2: 32:41

let the centrists just play golf for while. Yeah, I mean there are, there's a lot of people who would say that the way you get those people out of cages has to convince the centrist to let them go. Personally, I'm not, I don't really see that like the way that I look at politics, it's essentially a contest station of power over the distribution of societal resources. Those are all words that will words like I'm, I'm not operating on full power this one. So if you could, but that is, that is fair enough. Comrade. Um, yeah, I mean basically, so politics is not some, you know, asinine debate club. You'd go there, you make your case and everybody sits around and says, oh yeah, no, you are right and I am wrong. And I don't have a vested interest in like proclaiming myself to be right regardless of whether or not I am. It's the whole, the whole thing about, um, politics and this includes, um, people who people like and our kiss and um, you know, post leftists who refuse to engage in what liberals call politics. I mean it's still, I think political. It is, it is about determining who is allowed access to what resources, right? It's, it is the way that it's, it's the, you know, it's, it's the way that we determine how our society is organized and because of this, because the stakes are as high as they are, you can't go into politics just assuming that the best ideas win out in the marketplace of ideas. And so it's, it's not Mr. Smith goes to Washington. Yes. It's not Mr. Smith goes to Washington. It is, uh, Mr. Smith goes to Washington with, with a million other people behind him because they are all pushing in the same direction and want the same thing and are making those in power fear their own status quo legitimacy if they don't acquiesce to that. And then if you have like, I dunno, 100 million people, you don't even need to go to Washington, you can just say to hell with Washington and turn your back on it all together and be Bartleby in saying I prefer not to. But yeah, I think that what we really, what we really have to do and have to be focusing on is building the kind of organ, organizational relationships and, and institutions that allow us to collectively wield political power. And sometimes that's going to include electorial politicking. And like a lot of times that's going to include, you know, direct action and mutual aid and building up these, these nonstate institutional societies.

Speaker 1: 36:01

Yeah. And the electoral politics stuff like we talked about with Molly, especially on the hyperlocal, there is the ability to affect change. Maybe I ideally I would love to be proven wrong and for us to elect a socialist everywhere and the half that have a lasting, measurable change on the material conditions, but also maybe there's stuff that we can do in the shorter term as well that's more about improving the material conditions for all of us now and helping us survive versus working for some eight 12 year in the future election, which I think where I've been going to have elections 12 years in the future.

Speaker 2: 36:51

Yeah. I don't know. Things like um, pushing for municipal reform to make affordable housing real and actually affordable because that's something that we're, we're involved in right now. I'm at the kind of the beginning stages in building that coalition and hopefully grassroots movement. And you know, it's, it's, it's like you said, we're not going to vote in the revolution, but at the same time, if we acquiesce a lever of power to people who are fundamentally going to a fundamentally hate what we are trying to do for society and are going to use that power and in order to, you know, block us and keep us from moving forward on our project, then maybe, you know, at least preventing them from having their hand on that lever of power or having somebody else in there who is more amenable to, I don't want to say doing good things, but doing things that are less bad. People who are easier to negotiate with, who are more sympathetic to you. Like that's, if nothing else, that's harm reduction. Right.

Speaker 1: 38:10

Um, I would like to remind our listeners that I have no idea what I'm talking about and so likely that a lot of the stuff that I've said is wrong. So if you've been hollering at your radio for the past 40 something minutes about how I should shut the fuck up because I don't know what I'm talking about. Believe me, I already know I'm, I'm not a brain genius. Do listen

Speaker 2: 38:36

to echo echo plex media? No. Okay. They're dead. It's actually a very good podcast that, um, uh, is local to the bay area. And Anyway, long story short, um, one of the things that they do is, is uh, blanket retractions on everything they've said. I feel like you're, you're offering a blanket retraction on everything right now. I, I hear by denounce everything that I have previously said.

Speaker 1: 39:05

It's not so much that I did announce it, but more that I realized that I am, I am like that animated Gif of the Saml, yet in a space suit floating in zero gravity with the, with the caption of I have no idea what I'm doing. I say these things that I feel and like many of them, I'm still halfway through working out and you know, I feel them pretty strongly otherwise, I wouldn't say them, but 18 months ago I was soft. Ironic and now I'm not. So who knows? 18 months from now I hope to God and not an end cap, but 18 months from now I may have reevaluated a lot of stuff and learned and hopefully improved in a good way. Yeah. It's not a retraction, it's more an acknowledgement that I, a lot of the time I'll, I'll listen back to these and they'll be like, what am I even saying? Which I think it's the podcast experience. Really. Yeah. Probably. We came into this saying that we probably wouldn't have enough material for a full episode and I think we've proven that we did, but it was kind of meandering.

Speaker 2: 40:19

It was so, but that's also kind of our podcast experience too. So, uh, yeah, I am actually thoroughly shocked that we were able to squeeze, what does this now like 45 minutes out of our, out of me saying I've got about 15 minutes worth of rate that I want to get it.

Speaker 1: 40:42

Well, to be fair, every like three minutes of your rand, I interjected and spawn a bunch of shit out of that. So you kind of split it into five little bits of round in interspersed with all this shit. Oh, incidentally, if you are interested in hearing about nice things, my friend Leslie, uh, garbage, he may on Twitter has started a brand new podcast called the nice things podcast where for about 15, 20 minutes an episode, she in some guests talk about things that are nice and pilot. This plug is that I was on the first episode. So I will, if I end up editing this episode and uploading it, I'll make sure it's in the show notes. I don't think that there's any socialism in there. I might have accidentally let some in because I kind of do that with everything I do.

Speaker 2: 41:33

Yeah. I

Speaker 3: 41:33

mean also it's a show by a socialist with a guest who is a socialist. So it's picking that probably, uh, I listen to it. It was very good. Um, and I'm just so happy that when she came on, when, when she came on our show and talked about burnout and threatened to make a show, a podcast about nice things that she actually followed through on it. Uh, because we all need nice things in her life. So go listen to the nice things podcast. It's very good like it and subscribe and supported on Patrion. Yes. Also support us on Patrion. Maybe you can do that too, but definitely support Leslie. Yeah. Don't know how we did it, but we got an episode out of it. Love and support your comrades. Yes, we are all going to fuck up. We are all going to say shit that it turns out was completely useless. And sitting with that fitting with failure of sitting with mistakes and growing from them is an important part of life. And I think leftism than we even had an overarching moral. Yes. But uh, you know, I've said it before. I'll say it again. Please be gentle with your comrades. We're all trying and the times are trying us even harder. So, uh, signing off, I am Tiberias Caracas communal sauce. Go in peace and be in solidarity comrades.[inaudible]

Speaker 1: 43:53

thank you for listening to this podcast from the left coast media collective, a part of the critical mediations network to connect with us. Follow the collective on Twitter at left-pad or email us@leftcoastpodcastatgmail.com our work is supported by our patrion subscribers, including a KGB operative, Casey, the Kudzu commune, Jake helping calm rights and communist dog. You can become a supporter by visiting patrion.com/left coast media. Collective members include Antifa Pope commune, all source. Check it. Informant Potato, rain, outer Siberia, Rosa and R. R. R. R. N..