Left Coast Media
Left Coast Media
Wherein Questions Are Raised And Actions Proposed
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Hello and welcome to a very special episode of the Left Code Pod. Yay.
Speaker 2Hello. Welcome to a very special episode of the Left Coast podcast.
Speaker 1I am communal sauce and I am Erd and we are coming to you today without Tiberius. He has been summoned somewhere and we've decided to try flying solo. So if this sucks, it's not his fault. If it's excellent, it's totally earn and mice responsibility and you should send us all sorts of wonderful price. It credibility is the key here in credit. So what we're going to be talking about today is a little bit about what's been going on recently and then we're going to talk about theory of change and then earn has some thoughts about how we think about class these days. All right, so the main thing, biggest thing that I think that's happened recently is we have the sheriff riotous news earned. Do you want to talk about that? I have not heard. Last week on Thursday, sheriff riotous announced that he is going to be retiring. He, he claimed it was due to ill health or medical reasons, but we know really his main medical reason was probably a giant headache that the community action coalition and the recall campaign calls Tim. So I want to send out huge big props to community action coalition and the DSA northbay members that have been working with the coalition and everybody who went out and just collected so many signatures and put the fear of God into him. That's how things get done. Yeah, it's, I think it's what we can probably call our first win. Absolutely announce or less of, of when, uh, the current state of SB five six to now, I know you can take this one. So this is a tough one. Currently, SB five six two has been shelved for
Speaker 3about a year by Anthony Brendan. And his reason was, well, the actual phrase he used was woefully incomplete, which is partially on purpose. Um, the funding mechanism has not been fleshed out to a t and there are a lot of electoral hurdles to get through. So in that regard, anyone could sort of do the deficit hawks sort of right wing, how are you going to pay for this move and shelve it. But we know that the opposition had, well I had personally been waiting to see the insurance, the health insurance industry strike back and I think this is how they did it. I think we really only saw the strike but the preparation behind the scenes, it's probably been going on for awhile anyways. There are a couple issues regarding SB five six to namely there is a two thirds vote required to raise funding. Uh, the other one is that there is a law, which I don't remember the name of, but it requires a certain percentage of all state budget to go to education. And this was made back in the nineties I believe, to sort of save education when there was all these budget issues going. So that means that the money that we raise for our single payer program in California, about 40% of it, we'll have to go to education, which means we'd have to basically raise double unless we get around this law, which is a very kind of iron clad law. And so there's sort of a debate going on as like as far as like, is it true that there's a lot more work to be done? Um, however, the folks that healthy California, the, they were trying to get sort of the shell of the bill through just so it's voted on. Um, so that we can work out the other stuff later. This was an electoral strategy start to finish. Um, so that we couldn't be blocked. We can leave things sort of open to interpretation and flush it out as we go, I believe.
Speaker 1Sounds about right. Uh, today it is Monday, July 10th, and tomorrow Tuesday, July 11th was going to be the day when the bill was heard in the assembly. Uh, since it's not going to be heard in the assembly, the California Nurses Association is running busloads of people up to Sacramento to protest, yell, make a fuss, uh, bring to light what's, what's going on. I went out on a healthcare canvas with DSA East Bay who came up to Santa Rosa over the weekend and we did door knocking and let people know about this bill. And we were handing out flyers for people who said that they might be available to go up to Sacramento tomorrow. So I'm, I'm hopeful that while this probably won't be as, as the Dianes that we had nationwide last week, that it will at least get some attention.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3It's a very crucial time. Anyone possible call your representative, Call Speaker Brendan. Just call their office, annoy them, make them afraid. That's how we do it.
Speaker 1Yeah. If you'll, politicians are not scared of you, which probably should be scared of you because you'll vote them out, not scared of you because you're going to shoot them in the butter or anything. Um, then you know what good, aren't they? Well, metaphorically shoot them in the bucket. All right. Any more local stuff for California stuff we want to cover?
Speaker 3I don't think so. Just, um, the, the recall campaign for the sheriffs on it, it seemed very, there was a point where people were like, God, this can be so hard. And there was a lot of canvases that felt very, very, um, difficult. Yes. Like so much resistance and I'm getting the feeling that it always feels like that. Then the point is to push through it.
Speaker 1You feel like you're losing right up until the moment when you went. [inaudible]. Okay. So two weeks ago, two, three weeks ago, I had the incredible good fortune to be in New York for the Democratic Socialists of America Leadership Training. The, um, they had the Rifa session was for women nonbinary non male, um, DSA members. But this is a training that DSA want to offer to everybody because everybody, because everybody in Dsa should be a leader. And one of the things that I brought out of it was my usual notebook full of notes. But what I want to talk specifically about is, um, our theory of change in Dsa and as socialists and as activists. So theory of change is, uh, how are we believe that change happens? So it's, you know, how we believe we are going to make an effect for DSA that comes from building mass working class power that brings a material change in people's lives and shifts power away from the capitalist class and towards our communities and previously unorganized people. So our theory of change has a bunch of different ways that we think that we can make that happen. And I'm going to put our on on the spot right now and see if you can name maybe just a couple of things you think might be in our theory of change.
Speaker 3All right. I would say the one that goes to most American's minds because when you think of politics, we think of electoral politics. However, from the left there's always a critique of that being the sole focus of any movement is painfully unlimited because it's designed to be limited. Our system is designed to shore up power. Um, and so other things would be bottom up movements, um, direct actions of various types.
Speaker 1All right, so you've talked about getting people elected and you've talked about direct action. There's also something that we've already been involved with, which is transformative reform campaigns like SB five, six, two. It's not getting a personnel acted, but it is still a campaign for transformative reform primarily through the political levers. Right? I want to suggest political education. Yes. As a theory of change providing services and stuff like mutual aid. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Direct recruitment and labor solidarity. And then here's the last one that, um, I find a little bit difficult to define, but strategic intervention in the weak points of capitalism. So by involving ourselves in intervening in a place where capitalism is weak, we can make people question capitalism question whether it's necessary. So the thing that I see as being in common between all of these kind of parts of the theory of change is that they alter the relations of power. I mean, obviously if you get somebody elected, they are kind of the Holden to you. Um, they create a material change in people's lives, even if that change is just something like going to sleep with a full stomach rather than going to sleep hungry or being able to talk about or or know what disenfranchisement is or something like that. And then the final one with I already mentioned was making people question capitalism.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1Areas has been quite vocal in his desire to build dual power too.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1Take advantage of the parts of the theory of change that are non electoral. So the mutual aid, direct action, not just intervention in the weak points of capitalism, but alternative economies and alternative ways of structuring, structuring our economy and structuring our lives. Um, what is your thought are on, on this theory of change and what Dsa is kind of focusing on in this theory of change?
Speaker 3Well,
Speaker 2okay.
Speaker 3A couple of things. There have been a few DSA members around the country that have gotten some local electoral wins, um, or just a few people that self identify as socialists. And that is incredibly encouraging and it creates the desire to keep going. And I think we have more than enough people to get that done and also focus in other directions. I personally don't see a lot of the most recent thing you mentioned, which is sort of dual tower, um, parallel sort of mechanisms of providing, um, meeting the needs of the community. And that's because in my personal opinion, um, since like the Reagan years, charity has been seen as this thing that's like either if you're on the right, it's like, well that'll pick up the pieces that fall. And if you're on the left, it's like that's an inadequate replacement for the work of politics. And, um, so let's just get rid of the idea of charity altogether. And, um, if you look at successful political movements wherever they may be, and frankly that in colludes, you know, certain iterations of the Catholic Church, the Christian, you know, Protestant churches as well, um, by meeting people where they are and provide, providing needs, you have an open ear, especially when you couch it in terms like, capitalism can't do this for you and we're doing this and here's why. And here's why you should question Kat capitalism in question. Our current, you know,
Speaker 1I mean the, the quintessential example that we come back to is the quintessential example that we come back to is the Black Panther free breakfast program. Yes. That as well as monitoring the cups during traffic stops as well as a community clothing drives as well as all of the shit in the 10 point plan that they served and improved them. They created material change in the lives of the people that they were building with whom they will building solidarity. And I, I feel personally that, and this is absolutely meet speaking purely for myself and not as any sort of DSA, you know, you know, anybody with any sort of power or anything in Dsa because God knows I'm just, uh, another nobody, um, that national, the messaging coming out of national in terms of some changes they want to make are more about setting up a scaffolding for getting people elected and electoral and political change. Um, like setting up, getting more people in the national office, being, having regional stuff. And it seems more focused on, um, kind of an hour revolution style rather than what, what drew me into the essay, which was the ability for individual chapters to the chapters to be highly individualized and focus on what they felt was of importance to build solidarity where they were. I kind of feel like national might have some lanyards in it. They might be trying to get more lanyards and I am not down with that. I mean it's fine if you are, but I don't want to end up the leftist who's just wandering around with a clipboard all the time.
Speaker 3Right. Um, can I, okay. So I, I agree very much, um, especially the way that DSA structured, I'm trying to be as horizontal as possible. Um, I think that gives some great advantages in that people get to sort of the self determine what is going to affect change in their areas. Um, I just, I don't want to see those things as mutually opposed. Um, because we join DSA because we felt that by organizing and sharing whatever resources are contributed by the on the various members, we'd be able to be more effective. Um,
Speaker 1it's more that I, I tend to think about these things and consider the worst case scenario. Sure. Coopting yeah. I, I support DSA. I just bought a lifetime membership, so I'm, I'm good, you know, for however many years we managed to survive, um, if it's up to 50, I'm, I'm good, I'm covered. Um, unless they require monthly dues and wipe all that out and then I'll be quiet, annoyed. Um, but I, I'm just worried that the, the DSA is, is closer to that line that separates libertarian and authoritarianism than I would like it to be. Right. But it's more kind of centrist on that or, or more, more centralized even. Yeah. Federated. Uh, the, if the Federated Organization that I was drawn to and if you are interested in joining a 2019 slate for the national political committee that is left Libertarian, libertarian, Communist, Communist, uh, find me on Twitter because I'm going to try and put something together. We have a, a Marxist slate running for NPC at convention this year and I want Kropotkin kids to be the next slate.
Speaker 3Yeah. Um, this might be me reading too much into it, but like I don't want our desire for, um, sort of a more libertarian direction to be a barrier to things getting done. And it sounds like anytime people are, sometimes people hear about the possibility of joining forces and getting a certain victory that it's like, oh, that's not the right way. And so I don't want that kind of need Yoko opposition. Right. And I'm not saying that, um, from you or any other members in our DSA group, I've ever heard that, but, and it's not even said that way. It's the inflection. So that's why I might be reading too much into it. The thing I would say is that the last 30, 40 years in the left has been utterly impotent as far as the main levers of power. And so there are certain instincts that we're going to have to question
Speaker 1the instincts to form a circular firing squad. And plus normally the big tent of DSA. It's one of the things that I love about it and I don't want to see that 10 get smaller. Right. And while, you know, monthly dues may not make that tent smaller, I again present my opposition to the spring platforms. Um, third plank that requires low new locals to adopt prewritten bylaws. Like I feel like that sets a boundary around the tent that is smaller than I would like to see, but I may be borrowing trouble from the future or counting my terrifying chickens before they're hatched. Right, right. Just I like the ability for us to be autonomous within certain guidelines
Speaker 3for, you're fine. I mean, you know, we're gonna run Cory booker as the DSA candidate. You're fine with that.
Speaker 1I'm absolutely fine with Dsg, the DSA slash whole foods slash Amazon slate. So locally we've been, we've been focusing on getting a transformative reform campaigns. Um, hopefully at our next meeting we're going to be forming working circles and one of those is going to be political education. Um, and I'm going to be getting involved in more direct action. There's so many things that I want to do, I want our chapter to do or that I envision our chapter doing as well as hoping that the chapter gets much larger so that I can stop doing some of this shit. I see other things that I want us to get involved with, but we just don't have the, the human resources, the human capital right now,
Speaker 3sauce does basically everything right now. So now that I got my sort of, okay, let's insert this in to consider, let's run in that direction because I really like it. I don't hear it being talked about a lot within the DSA infrastructure. And so I think we should be loud and clear vocal advocates for these ideas of these other directions that DSA should pursue change. So, um, political education and mutual aid intervening. I think those can all be done in, you know, single actions. So let's, let's maybe just some thought experiments.
Speaker 1Okay. So you want thought experiments of uh, uh, see mutual aid or services or strategic intervention in the weak points of capitalism? Um, I mean the big one that's already in motion in this county is, um, food, not bombs and that kind of, you know, um, serve the people la, which is a leftist group might be PSL. I'm not sure. Um, they do food banking and as well as,
Speaker 2uh,
Speaker 1setting up pickets outside places that are cheating their workers. And um, I think even something as simple as like a community garden. Yes. Because you also get to know each other. Yes. And I know that, that you have, you have thoughts on that as well?
Speaker 3Well, yes, I really like the emphasis you just put on, um, building actual social connections with other people. Um, I think that's far more likely to get recruitments then finding somebody that's already on your ideological page and just, Oh, I hadn't known you were here. Okay. I'll join. Um, does, I mean I, uh, food insecurity is a massively horrible issue. It's, um, a lot of the great produce that serves all live in California has grown right where we're looking out as we were recording. And yet a lot of people don't have access to that food. And a lot of it ends up throwing away. A lot of it ends up throwing away and um, a lot of the food they do eat was grown in Argentina, flown to some canning plant in another and somehow
Speaker 4ended up on the shelves of Walmart, um, for a price so low that, you know, massive amounts of human misery went into bringing that price and quality level down. And so how, how do we improve on that and what message do we have to include in order to make sure that it's political and not simply a way to serve people, which is also important.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's the, that's the part that I haven't quite got. Um,
Speaker 4I mean just putting our name on it is one,
Speaker 1so when you talk about, you know, providing, providing stuff to people and just making sure that it's branded. Uh, if you have, or anybody listening to this has spent time with me as I drive or walk around bay area, you'll know that I carry like Starbucks gift cards to give to people who are asking for change because, um, it's not so much that I don't want to give money, it's that I, I feel like, you know, Starbucks has a bunch of stuff. Like you can go there, you can get a coffee, you can go to the bathroom, you can charge your devices, you can really freak out. Suburbanites um, and I stick like Dsa, uh, stickers on the, on the gift cards, which maybe gross, but
Speaker 4so, um, I never thought about that, that Starbucks provides more than just the dollar value of what you'd be giving.
Speaker 1I well, it's also a chance to stick it to Starbucks. I right. I probably should have used something like McDonald's that's more universal, but at the time I was in Berkeley and there's, there's very few McDonald's in Berkeley, but there are more Starbucks.
Speaker 4Right. And do you know Mcdonald's is like known for their stance on just letting people hanging out? I did not. It, they're actually really good about it. And there's a great piece written. It was published in the Guardian, I forget the writer, but he went around and did this like photo campaign and people that you know are, are poor or homeless. Um, they really, if they can, they allow them to just sit and a lot of, um, actual like community meetings happen there. Um, a lot of like old folks that don't really have anywhere to go throughout the day. Um, like prayer groups and stuff and they're all very inclusive and it's just, they decided at some level that they would let that happen and it's kind of surprising. So Mcdonald's might be a good one.
Speaker 1Yeah. Also, possibly we could have a DSA meeting and when a one of the Mcdonald's playland land places
Speaker 4and the left's strange obsession, fast food, it's just hilarious. Me and I totally get it too.
Speaker 1So your brainstorming, what kind of more kind of strategic interventions can you kind of think up beyond going out into the street and yelling and holding a sign? Sure, sure. Um,
Speaker 4I mean it will require organization and I do like thinking about it couched in the terms of um, how DSA might be able to help facilitate because that's kind of what we want, especially if going forward DSA gets more members and more funding. Um, so let's think about, let's do the community garden idea. So either we find a plot that's empty in my town, this community garden, that plot was not being used and somehow permission was given to grow in it. If there isn't something, maybe people petition city hall, give a proposal.
Speaker 1Well maybe some kind of like guerrilla gardening on like a median strip. Yeah,
Speaker 4something like that. Or sure. Or if somebody has just an extra space on wherever they are, um, that's India say. So once we get it, we start to what do we grow? Do we all volunteer and until the land, do we sign up members of the community? Do we include them no matter what?
Speaker 1I feel like you have to be inclusive of members of the community so that you can get a feel for what their needs are, what their interests are. And also so it's not just like some weird little socialist cult that I have started growing rhubarb or blackberries or whatever.
Speaker 4And ideally garden growing stuff takes time. But we get the really healthy, wonderful produce and just distributed, distributed or have big cookouts on site, you know, and invite everyone that we know it was hungry and you have reading groups, the middle of the garden. Can you imagine? I can. Um, and so where DSA could, could come in, and this is just an example is templates. So we get a group of people, you know, I'm talking to a bunch of, um, actually like maybe one or two socialists farmers and I met one at our, our meeting too. And so maybe join together and write out what's the best way to start a community garden in your community. Um, how do you lay it out? What's the struck to people read plots and then, or do they rent pots and without money and just contribute some of their produce? Or is it all communal and, um,
Speaker 1and then just share that information. Because I know that there's information on community gardens out there, but there's not really anything that that ties in community gardening with a specific ideology or how to do it in order to build solidarity. Right. Build a mass movement. Right. And, and some of that, I feel like we used to have that knowledge but lost it because again, every single episode I come back to this thing that we've lost all of our institutional knowledge. Yeah.
Speaker 4Um, so I really loved the idea. I was like a builtin template or like instructional manual. And so people in you know, rural, Rural Idaho or in a suburb of Chicago or Florida want to get that going. Dsa Is there. There's someone they can call with advice. Um, whether it's how to deal with local laws or how to grow carrots. A same with food drives or something like that. What's the way to utilize the food you get or the money you get? Clothing drives and something tells me that being a group that is ideologically oriented towards lifting up the working class and the poor, that people would be more comfortable coming. And we basically can say, we don't subscribe to this idea that your struggles are a product of your moral weakness. This system is really messed up and here's why and here's what we want to do about it. Maybe all we do is just show a different viewpoint of society or maybe we get more and more people involved.
Speaker 1Yeah, you, you make people question whether capitalism is the only option or the best option because if you've shown that you can provide for their material needs or improve their lives without really, well, I'm not going to say without engaging in capitalism because we all have to engage in capitalism because that's, we live in a capitalist society. But if you can grow and grow food and make meals and not have to engage in shipping that shit out up from Argentina, right. And you can build solidarity while you're doing it, that that shows that maybe what we're talking about isn't all bullshit. I mean, a lot of it is bullshit, but also some of it may also be useful.
Speaker 4So another thing that contributes to the stratification of social mobility and resources is education. And children with privilege, um, have access to tutoring and extra help, well, safe environments where they don't have to worry about their day to day,
Speaker 1whereas poorer children, especially children of color end up trapped in the school to prison pipeline. Right.
Speaker 4And so, um, anyway, uh, we can maybe provide services like tutoring or really just like a safe sort of community center or something. Um, even a fucking school breakfast or other free breakfast program, lunch since divorced seems intent on stripping all of that. Lunches are a big one. I actually would love to get involved in just my local towns lunch program because I know lunch is a very lacking.
Speaker 1Yeah. Unfortunately there are a bunch of regulations around providing school lunches, which, well, red type is bullshit.
Speaker 4Well that's a resource that DSA could have. So here are the laws, here are the obstacles and here's the best way to implement this thing you would implement. Or they could just say, you can't do this, but you can do this.
Speaker 1That's amazing. You're thinking of all of the stuff around all the stuff that I'm thinking. So, I mean, ideally we want fully automated queer space socialism right now, but while we're working towards that, uh, we need to support people where they are right now. Yes. And that could be feeding them, clothing them, housing them, um, showing up when somebody is about to be evicted and making it difficult, if not impossible to evict them. Um, legal aid, peer support. One thing that I have been thinking of recently is that it would be really cool if DSA had, um, a comrade support network. So if you are having, um, a mental, not a mental health crisis, not, not an emergency, but if you are in need of someone to talk to, if you have something that you, you need help with, um, you know, emotionally, right. That you could just speak to like a peer listener, somebody who knows how to, has been trained on how to, can I do active listening and can help you because I mean, I don't know about you, but my health insurance situation is not one that really allows for hours of therapy. Um, at least not hours of therapy.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 4Of the kind that I wish I, yes. Yeah. I had that same exact issue. I did what I could, what they allowed me to.
Speaker 1And when you talk to a therapist, they may not necessarily agree with you that the roots of many of your problems are, uh, capitalism, a white supremacy and the patriarchy. Right. Whereas if you are talking to a Comray, do you know that you're all coming from this central point of us being stuck in this alienating system?
Speaker 4Can I give an example? Sure. So within the world of addiction treatment recovery 12, it's, it's good work, but it's focused on the personal shortcomings of the individual. It's also very focused on the higher power, right? The higher power, which you could within that kind of turn it into like, my higher power is serving others or something like that. But, um, basically they'd give this prescription and say, this is what's going to fix you. And if you don't like that, they're oftentimes not going to help you. I've seen that a million times. I've been through this world myself and talking about, you know, social issues and economic issues as contributing factors is seen as like cheating or blaming others. So that's an issue. I mean that's a problem, especially with the massive opiate epidemic and addiction that comes with poverty. Um, even if we just add a little context to that conversation.
Speaker 1Yeah. Not necessarily saying that we can solve it, but that there are some aspects to this that I think are bound up with our economy. Yeah, I am, I am wondering how we would implement that sort of, uh, appear listening or a peer support program without all of the work coming down to femmes and women because I personally, um, I freely give a lot of my emotional labor, but I also have a huge difficulty with saying no with saying to somebody, you know, I can't do this. I, yeah. Um, because I like I, part of what drew me to socialism is this, this thing that everybody should be happy and cool and I do what I can for that. But I feel like emotional labor, it is, well not just feel like emotional labor is very gendered. And so if we were to do this sort of thing, we would need to make sure that it was something that was either equal or something that men took up more of the work, like the example of, of childcare. Um, like trying to get childcare done primarily by men in the chapter. I love that. I think San Francisco is, is pushing for that. And, and your talking about, you know, the community garden, I don't, is, is gardening traditionally gendered?
Speaker 4It depends honestly, like we live in the North Bay, so I really haven't seen, um, I don't think this is a normal example, but it is everybody's into it. So, but
Speaker 1that maybe cooking, it's traditionally,
Speaker 4um, well the cooking like professional cooking world is very, very patriarchal, toxic masculinity, all that sort of thing. Um, the farms that might, I work in a restaurant and we get our stuff from, has a lot of fantastic women farmers that are freaking Badass. Um, and so I think farming, gardening, um, it maybe we just make an effort to get more and more people involved. Um, I think it depends on the age as well. Um,
Speaker 1cause I, I have this, this thing that I think I mentioned in an interview that will never be ad because it's far too echoey that when we create our, you know, that another world is possible. But when we create it, we have to make sure that we're not just recreating existing structures of oppression and, and being intentional about how we form it. So when we do, uh, um, political education to center marginalized peoples and March nine people's experience as part of that education to not just read Marx but to read works by women, by people of Color, by quit socialists, by queer leftists. Um,
Speaker 2Aye.
Speaker 1I feel like a lot of the leftist cannon is Yup. Mocks and his friends. Yeah, absolutely. But actually speaking of the leftist cannon and Marx and his friends, I feel like this might be a good opportunity to move on to talking about class.
Speaker 4Oh, sure, sure. Um, let me just get up to the rest of the thoughts I have. Oh, I'm sorry. No, no, sorry. This is a fantastic conversation. Um, as far as I'm emotional labor, my experience so far within the left, is there sort of a certain, if not class class like a social class and it might be a little more educated than your average slice of the population. And so with the people we have right now, it might be a little easier than if you just want to take a random group somewhere in the country and say do a garden or do a, you know, a support group. Um, honestly I would say find the recovery addicts, the men that have gone through there because like, I know how to speak the language of emotions and I'm always trying to help people and um, people that have been therapy, people that are in the industry or the profession. Um, but I do like the idea of creating the intention of switching the traditional gender roles and social roles. Um, in all things we do.
Speaker 1Yeah. I you talking about find people who are already in the helping professions, but I kind of feel like by the end of the day you're kind of burned out and you're done.
Speaker 4That's true. People that get therapy maybe, I don't know or I mean honestly, the most amazing emotional I've seen has been with a bunch of people talking to each other in a circle
Speaker 5that
Speaker 4don't know what they're talking about, but that have shared experiences. What if we had like a capitalism support group where we talk about what, how are all getting fucked by? And we talk about our emotions and our struggles, but catch it. I mean, I really liked this. That's cool as hell though.
Speaker 1The, I think this should be an DSA north
Speaker 4they project. Awesome. Very cool. I think you just volunteered for something. Yes. Oh Man.
Speaker 5MMM.
Speaker 4See, we all have something to contribute. Uh, okay. So, um, I guess there's a couple of tropes around class and that I hear on the left and I just want to sort of take them to the extreme or to their logical conclusion. I, uh, and this is not because, you know, my personal situation is I have a very low salary, but I am able to live a certain condition because of my family. And so depending on how it's, so here's an example of depending on how you parse that, do I own anything? Does it matter if I'm getting to stay in a place that belongs to somebody else? Said, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1But, um, which I'll, I'll use, I'll use an example. So I have also have a very low salary. My spouse does not. Um, if I, for whatever reason needed to leave my spouse, I could not survive. So does that mean that I am no bourgeoisie or whatever, or does it just mean that I'm trapped or with you, you know, the, the stuff that your parents have is probably to some level contingent on certain rules and certain expectations? Yeah,
Speaker 4to be clear, I'm, I'm not like, you know, just out of college, like, you know, I'm, I'm getting on. And so, um, it just kind of shows like there's just rents are high and a lot of people at my age and my profession have the same issues. I saw a former coworker that lived in, um, or that worked in an old restaurant of mine in the city and I was able to predict her situation to a t I was like, you work in the city, you live in the East Bay, used to live in the city, the landlord, uh, raise your rent, tripled it and kicked you out and you had to move to the East Bay. Now you commute. And it was like to a t. So here's the other side people, there's a lot of people that work in the tech industry or various lucrative industries that are involved in the left. And I think that it's great orthodox, Marxism and safe. They don't own the means of production then they're still working class.
Speaker 1But you know, if you're making a pretty decent six and a half fingers, like does that, are you still walking class?
Speaker 4Well, yeah, exactly. And I
Speaker 1don't, I don't know the answer. If you don't own wealth, like should you on wolf, like if, if you're going to start a family and you want security, like you should get some property or something probably. And so maybe just because I'm used to the certain liberal language of like, don't do racism, don't do sexism. Well that's not liberal, that's, that's just right. But all these things that you're supposed to like behave, resist, you're supposed to change. Whereas it's a system where that we live in the political economy where you have to participate or you starve. Oh, I, we're obviously not saying the class warfare isn't a thing. Right. And we're not saying the classes aren't a thing, but I think maybe, maybe teasing out or, or unpacking to use that way. Overused phrase, what, what to be proletarian means now or comparing I think, um, just off of the election, I read a piece that describe classes in terms of, um, wage earners, salary earners, and then, um, like the people who make them money and live off dividends, right? So you've got your working class, you've got your middle, your professional class, and then you've got your upper class. Right. And I wonder if that's distinction might be helpful.
Speaker 4Yeah. Um, it just specifies a little bit more and I mean, what if, because the idea is you're so morally opposed to the system that even if you benefit by it, you want to destroy it.
Speaker 1Yeah. I mean, you sitting there listening to this, you're typing your, I dunno, [inaudible] or your c or Python or whatever, weekly or Ruby or, and you're thinking, well, no, I'm, I'm definitely proletarian because I have to work this. I haven't, I am just an interchangeable cog. But also you do have certain material advantages is over, for example, those of us who make a quarter of what you do or those of us who don't make anything. Um, and so I think class first analysis might be where we're kind of going with this, that when you talk about things in terms of you should always do class first, which I disagree with because you know, um, that even if you're doing Kloss based analysis, you need to put a more contemporary lens over it, right?
Speaker 4Yes, exactly. And that includes all of the filters that speaking about the Canon, you know, after Mark's came like Graham Street and then all the Frankford guys and then like in the sixties, seventies, 80s, and all the good stuff happens. The feminist, the queer theorist, the race theorist, um, all of those filters now exist. Those lenses rather that we can analyze. And so there's different levels of advantage and disadvantage. Um, that complicated. Um, I would say maybe it's not an ex exculpating yourself. So I always put out the advantages I have because of where invite from whom I was born as a way of like, I don't like the idea of like what I'm different, you know what I mean? It's like it's not the issue. The issue was like if you're, I don't know if you have a lot of money or if you own wealth, like we still want you to dismantle the system with us. Yeah. And at the same time being nuanced enough to understand where you sit on the system. So like for example, up until recently I managed a few people at my work because of my position and I had this conversation with somebody that, you know, reports to me that we may be friends and I, we made like, like each other a lot personally, but because of my position towards yours, that is a fundamental opposition that we have that um, our interests are different. I, my job, the way I or my money is by getting the most labor out of you for the least amount possible. And obviously like I tried not to do that, but just understanding the idea that you can identify with your boss and you can like them as a person and they're still in the context of your position within the market and your profession, like your enemy in one way.
Speaker 1At the, uh, as the pro, I think it's the preamble to the Iww says, you know, the working, the employing class and the employer class have nothing in common. Right. And that might be another way to look at proletarian versus [inaudible]
Speaker 4sure. In and then life happens like happens and you're like, okay, but this person also is maybe married to my sister or you know, I've, I've known them since I was a child or whatever. You know. And so human relationships don't fit in these categories. And so to understand like I'm fighting against you and we're also call members of the community and we may be friends or I may hate you, but I'm in class wise, like on your, we're in the same side of the battle. So I'm just saying it's like messy and it needs to be sort of thought all the way through. I would like to see because
Speaker 1it's, does that make sense? I, I really look forward to seeing the kinds of emails and responses that we get from this because I, I personally do believe in proletarian versus Bosch. Was He? Right. But I also agree that there's some, there's some nuance in there. And I'd be interested to see, you know, if maybe not, maybe almost definitely there is a bunch of shit about this that I haven't read yet
Speaker 4and then I go, sure. And nuance does not mean like, okay, I'm saying you should all like be a little easier on the bourgeois. Like no, like no, we should have left politics are absolutely about the working class as the focal point and it's liberatory politics. It's trying to remove class altogether. And until then, I dunno, I guess whatever resources you have used them to pull the system apart piece by piece maybe.
Speaker 1Yeah. Um, you there, who is writing your ruby coat that I talked about earlier? Maybe stick a wrench in there. I mean, you know, I'm not advocating, um, sabotage industrial sabotage or anything, but if what you're doing is just going to add a couple of Zeros to some fat cats, a stock portfolio.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1And there's a way that you can maybe not give 100%. Yeah, maybe steal some time, maybe listen to some street fight on [inaudible]. Maybe take a really, really long bathroom break. Yeah. I mean you don't just have to just give all your money away to true, uh, all of our fundraising drives and, and stuff like you can affect little bits of change,
Speaker 4right. By slowing down the capitalist apparatus in whatever way possible. And coming to DSA meetings, coming to DSA meeting, joining working circles, say you're like a manager and you make two bucks more an hour than the people you manage. First of all, like, um, maybe give them a little education about their position. Um, because I've found that a lot of the working class folks in this country identify with their boss more than their coworkers and just false consciousness and be like, and maybe it'll make your job harder. I don't know if you say I'm your enemy and you should do everything you can to undermine me. But um, yeah, false consciousness, like shedding that and just so this is, this would fall under political education as oppose,
Speaker 1I mean obviously if it's going to get you fired and land you in the gutter, we are not advocating that. But, uh, I am fairly well known at work for being the person who will and not necessarily come outright and say that capitalism sucks, but I, I am the one to go to if you, if you need somebody to roll their eyes at capitalism. Right.
Speaker 4Um, and so I guess to wrap up, what I wanted to do was raise the questions rather than answering them.
Speaker 1All right. So what questions have we raised?
Speaker 2Uh, what,
Speaker 4okay. A couple others. Um, if you have a pretty good salary and don't really own anything but you have a tiny piece of your money and like a shares of a company they may be worked for and you get stuck on. Yeah. But like a tiny, tiny bit. Do you own the means of production? Like technically you own a piece of, of means of production if you have a four oh one.
Speaker 1Okay. Does that make you, because you own part of like if you have stopped,
Speaker 4right? And so do what you gotta do to provide material comfort to yourself and your family and whoever else. And at the same time take the system apart and put it back together in an egalitarian worker managed party where everyone not just has their needs met but is living a fulfilling, fun life that's fucking blast. And also don't be a dick to other people. Right. Exactly. Um, so yeah, the questions would be what, how does the Orthodox view of working class, petty bourgeois capitalist class get fractured and fragmented and refracted in the modern environment where
Speaker 2you can
Speaker 4contribute to someone's Kickstarter and own a tiny piece because you were there early and then, I know that was a horrible example. No, that's, that's a good example. Um, because a lot of people that are kind of new to this, including me, speak about them in terms of, uh, you know, class traders and class warfare and you team the bourgeois and like that stuff is all very true. And then you look at your own life and you look at who's petty bourgeois and who's working class and who you like and you don't like, and you're like, okay, it's kind of messy. And to wrap up, I would say, um, we also want to avoid that, that liberal trope of this group of working class people votes conservative and has maybe some views that we don't like. And so they deserve what they're calm, what's coming to them.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 4The whole reason I'm on the left is because I hate that position more than anything. And I think you just, you're fight for people that are struggling and when you make their lives better, a lot of them come around mythical white working class.
Speaker 1Everybody I guess likes to focus on or assessed that we're focusing on. I believe that there is good in everybody, even even the bourgeoisie and maybe you have to cut off their heads to get to that goodness or maybe they end up being Kloss traitors or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 4yeah. Maybe they say, holy crap, I've been explaining all of you. Okay, I'm going to open up a hospital instead with all my money.
Speaker 1Well, thank earn this is, this has been really illuminating. Um, I mean partially the talk and partially the beer. Um, so that is it for us on left coast podcast. For this week. If you have comments, questions, concerns, things you want to yell at us, uh, your concepts of class or a well actually about plus you can reach us at, uh, left-pad on Twitter and there's a bunch of other ways to reach us. I'm going to allow Tiberius to splice in something at the end to talk about how to reach us and also so he can compliment us on how well we did without him. All right, thank you on and this has been all source. This has been left coast podcast Tiberius. I hope that you can edit this one into some sort of sense and maybe also leaving this part where I really apologize for any fuck ups that we made. All right. Bye.
Speaker 6Big shout out to comrade sauce and comrade Aaron for filling in for me today. Uh, terribly sorry, I couldn't be there for our regular listeners, but a work calls I guess. Anyway. Uh, if you would like to get ahold of us on Twitter, probably the easiest way to do so. Uh, go ahead and tweet us at left-pad. There is a, another left coast pod out there. Uh, which actually isn't us, but, uh, we're happy to have as many other lefty podcasts out there as we can get solidarity comrades. Uh, if you would like to get our direct stream, that's going to be on soundcloud.com/left coast podcast. If you would like to hit us up in email form, send us some questions, criticisms, suggestions. If you'd like to just, you know, come by and say hi. It is up on email. Our address is left coast podcast at [inaudible] dot com. We will also have our, uh, we also have our sub reddit, reddit.com/r/left coast media. Uh, you can, uh, join us in a, maybe some, a little bit of long form discussion there, although it's been pretty quiet so far. Other than that, you can hit up, uh, Aaron at r. R. R. R. N. You can hit up comrade sauce at communal sauce on Twitter. Other than that, we will catch you next week.
Speaker 1Go in peace and be in solidarity.
Speaker 7Oh, rats. Yeah.
Speaker 2Okay.