Speaker 1 0:00

It's almost like we professional, well, no, we're not professionals. It's, it's almost like we know what we're doing.

Speaker 2 0:37

[inaudible] [inaudible]

Speaker 3 0:52

welcome to another episode of the North Bay.

Speaker 1 0:56

Be a fun one. Today we got our comrades from some good all folk from down south. We got, we got our comrades from the Kudzu commune today. So, uh, let's go ahead and do our round of intros. I am Tiberias Caracas. Uh, I'm Alex and this is Jean Jones. Today we're going to be talking about how horrible the coasts are. Wait, no, that's not right. Um, yeah, how horrible everything is. But mostly the cultural beef between what's seen as the rural heartland and the coastal elites. So let's start off, it's the holiday season. Obviously being coastal elites, we don't celebrate Christmas out here cause we won the war on Christmas slash new year. But you guys are reporting from Christmas country. We're still fighting the war. Thank God we have the Antifa super soldiers to help us out. Yeah, it's after November 4th. They just, they all vanished. And I thought maybe they migrated south for the winter and I'm glad I was right. And I'm pretty sure most of us are going to be familiar with the kind of rural, conservative, whatever take on the coastal elites and why they're bad. But I think that they're really missing that class distinction where the coastal elites are seen as the CNO propertied entrepreneurial business class of people. And then you have your real America, which is, you know, proletariat working class and it's always couched in other terms. But there is this dynamic going on and, and I kind of want you to maybe touch on that a little bit, see where, see where your analysis as like southern rural leftists can maybe shed some better light on that. Well, I think a lot of that has to deal with, I mean obviously there's the much more analyzed history of the south

Speaker 4 3:00

in our mistakes and our wrongs we've done down here. And I think like even like going back to like the civil war and like what happened afterwards with a reconstruction and Jim Crow, it was always easier to point down south and say, well look how bad they are. And so even like I said, like a proletarian scape goat, it'd be like, well listen, you really don't want the hillbillies or the yokels are the working class to run thing. It's because look what the south is doing. If we let them run things. And I mean that's what's going to happen down there. I think part of that has to do with too is that there was the, our elites want to be identified as proletariat. Like the elites down south don't want to be seen as these coastal elites, these Harvard, Ivy Lee people, they want to be seen, they want to identify with the working class culture. And so it's kind of, it kind of all wrapped up culturally in the south as is this entire working class culture. And it's not actually the case at all. And so I think a lot of it comes from there is that there's this, there's a sheer divide because Arlene don't want to separate themselves from the rest of the class down here. And because of the history of bad things, we were always kind of a scapegoat in general anyways. So it was easy to point out and say again, you know they're wrong, we're right.

Speaker 5 4:16

So it's this, this tendency to I suppose, maintain the false consciousness in a slightly different fashion to continue to present oneself as part of the working class as part of the middle class as part of heartland or southern America by denying what is common between the bourgeoisie.

Speaker 4 4:40

No, exactly. And I think that's part of the, like if you can do that, you'll have to address the real problems of why we're in the situation. We all ran. It's a common tactic used by the elites down here, but like so like George Wallace who took that idea and ran with it as a, as a political vehicle, he talks about in a lot of biographies written about him and people who knew George lost that when he was younger. He was this progressive force when he was a young lawyer. He fought for poor communities and black communities. And what he saw was that when he tried to run it on this platform of progressive working class politics, he lost because the working class whites in the elites, the elites have, we're controlling them with this narrative. It's of, it's not, hey, it's not our fault. It's not the elites keeping you down on something. Elites that causes these problems here is the problem is either one put on us by the f this oppressive federal government, and that's trying to control our daily lives and trying to make us all and trying to destroy our culture. Or it's minority. Is that her down here? And so he sees that and says, this is a actually a political thing for me. And people have always kind of ran with that down south. That's been the elitist vehicle. Maintaining power is that it's never our fault. The elites down here, it's never their fault for anything being bad. It can't possibly be our fall because we're all working class just like you are. But you knew who. But you know, who isn't like us, a baggers, coastal leads, Ma, you know, minorities, they're all different from us and they're the ones wanting to come down here and destroy everything we have.

Speaker 5 6:04

And I feel some of the, not exactly valorization but some of the, the phrasing and the way that the, the war of northern aggression is phrase, how's the war of northern aggression, gives it an easy target, both for people who are not in the south to point at and say, well look, look at how bad the south is that they're calling it this. And as a way to create an US versus them for people who are in the south by muddying the civil war and reconstruction into this us versus them narrative. And I say that as somebody who is married to a southerner, I think,

Speaker 4 6:43

I think part of that is the, the ability to like first year in America have always wanted to be the good guy. And so it's the, uh, you know, fine. So the union when civil war, so they have to be the good guys. And so that means they must be pure America right there. And pure American means that it can't be bad either. So like the union, you know, so the narrative behind it, it was that the southerners are just kind of this evil, oppressive, you know, backwards racist society end up the north was just this wonderland of harmony and equality. And if a narrative that is easier to portray because of the south long history of mistakes or roles when it comes to everything.

Speaker 1 7:20

Yeah. And um, you know, I think the other part of it is that even in the south you still do have that same kind of like scapegoating of poor and marginalized white communities for the ills of southern society. And I think that does play a big part in the way that those who live outside of those regions are then, you know, shown by the people who might, the elites who lived there like, oh no, these people aren't the problem. And then it just makes it that much easier for people outside to go. The south is bad because of these people. Right. And it's always like the poorest and most marginalized communities who are being scapegoated like that.

Speaker 5 8:04

And then in order that those communities don't rise up, I'll pull white people, don't discover commonalities or are drawn together with poor black people. You then have that distinction, which I know was that reconstruction post reconstruction, this, this drawing of lines between poor black southern Americans and white people in order to create another distinction so that poor southern White, he would have somebody to, to look down on ob to be told, well you are not the lowest.

Speaker 4 8:38

Like historically goes back even to before slavery days. And that there was always this distinction there in, in, so you see that a lot with in the towns that had like a number of free black citizens. So like New Orleans or mobile or Savannah, a lot of the coastal towns in the south where you'd have a large of, you know, free, a free, a free black people. And even then, there's still a narrative between the poor whites in those towns versus the, um, you know, the free black citizens of, well, listen, you know, y'all be, y'all be better off if they just wouldn't be here.

Speaker 6 9:10

Yeah. If, if they realize that there were the similarities that these communities had, there's no telling what they could accomplish. For example, the, the young patriots and the Black Panthers in Chicago, the Young Patriots were a completely white organization. I'm from Appalachia that moved up to Chicago and they realize that they have so many similarities between this poor white community and the poor black community there. And, uh, they formed the rainbow coalition with it, the Black Panthers, and look at what they accomplished. You know, they set up free medical facilities and a free lunch programs for children. And the state was very quick to smash that and make sure that they got rid of it as soon as possible. But, uh, since we have these distinctions between race down in the south that are so entrenched in our culture, we haven't been able to accomplish something like that.

Speaker 4 10:08

You know, and there's some really good history there too. Like, cause there's historically there's been these coalitions where people come together and realize they're better. Like that poor people were better working together. They're in Virginia during the reconstruction, there was a group called the Reia adjusters and it was a coalition of a whites and blacks that came together politically to help affect change in the state. And so like, there's a history there and I ain't, you're seeing more of it now in the south where, especially in the bigger cities. Um, so I was raised in South Alabama and you're immobile and there's a long history there of, I'm not gonna say no racial Animus, but less compared to like Birmingham or Mississippi or something like that. But like with the ports of the county where I was from, it's, there's always been a history of the poor whites and blacks working together to try and scrape by living and was kind of always known, like politically even working together too. And so I think a lot of, some of the more rural parts in or even areas outside of big seizures in the poor parts of bigger cities have now was kind of coming together this unity. But it's still a long way away than it ever should have been before. I mean, people still want to look at, someone's, seen it, the color of their skin or their background or you know, where they're at school letter or how many kids they have and say, that's the reason we're different. And because of that, you know, even though we're poor, we're all worse off because of our switch we live in. We're not the same.

Speaker 6 11:35

Yeah. And I, I feel like, um, and you know, I keep going back to this, this like idea of scapegoating because I think it's like, it's a really powerful disciplinary tool that the capitalist elites actually have against people who should be like working together in solidarity and like

Speaker 1 11:54

we see it here too. It's not, I don't think it's like a uniquely southern thing. I think it's a key feature of capitalism. But there are communities here like the Hispanic community where you know, they're, they're treated whether or not they are, they're treated as if they are poor and because that they are treated like they are poor, then that must mean with poverty comes criminality and then you have all of these other issues and you kind of see these, the same kinds of parallels.

Speaker 5 12:26

Yeah,

Speaker 4 12:29

I think you're right. I don't think this is uncommon in order the world really. I think like scapegoat is really good word. One of the words I like to describe it too is a appeasement. It's appeasement politics and it's in its appeasement of the proletariat of the working class to keep them from revolting. Like, we'll give them whatever it takes. All three, hold on to our power will give them whatever they want, whatever we can use to keep them from rising up and doing something to us.

Speaker 7 12:52

And this sounds like a perfect opportunity for me to interject with something that I repeatedly just make everybody listened to me saying. Um, once I find the quote, because I want to make sure that I quote it correctly and Tiberius, I really hope you cut me out. Cut Out my trying to find it because that's not going to be very interesting for you.

Speaker 5 13:18

Please do not leave it in. Yeah, no, leave it in. This then is the great humanistic and historical task of the oppressed to liberate themselves and their oppressors as well. The oppressors who oppress, exploit and raped by virtue of their power cannot find in this power the strength deliberate either the oppressed or themselves. Only power that springs from the weakness of the oppressed will be sufficiently strong to free both any attempt to soften the power of the oppressor in deference to the weakness of the oppressed almost always manifests itself in the form of false generosity. Indeed, the attempt never goes beyond this. In order to have the continued opportunity to express their generosity, the are must perpetuate injustice as well. And in just social order is the permanent found of this generosity, which is nourished by death, despair, and poverty. That is why the dispensers of false generosity become desperate at the slightest threat to its source. And that's from pedagogy of the oppressed by Paulo Freire. I'll ask, I'll say, I don't know who the hell that is about to really good quote. I really recommend anybody that hasn't read it to at least read chapter one of pedagogy of the oppressed. You can find it online for, um, if you do not mind breaking the law by piracy, you can find it for free online. And since piracy is not a crime, it's not actually breaking a lot. I mean they should put that quarter or Snapple Peb but they're very, very, very wide. Malcolm apples. Oh Shit. That's a really good thanks. Peach Snapple. I got to know that. I'm gonna go put that robot now.

Speaker 4 14:55

Yeah. Um, yeah. And you know there's,

Speaker 8 15:00

okay.

Speaker 4 15:01

Basically no difference between the Democrat and the Republican Party. Oh yeah. No, that's, and, and, and I, and I think we kind of talk about that a little bit. Tebarry like in, in the lead up to this about how it's different like in the coastal areas because you're liberals have done more for y'all.

Speaker 8 15:20

Okay.

Speaker 4 15:20

Until there's more of an appeasement, I think free will. And so it seems better off where y'all already, even though we're also living under this like oppressive capitalist regime lave, no Rasa living underneath it, there's been more pavement in Massachusetts and California in Oregon or Washington as opposed to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana. And so I think we talked about like, why there's, why the South Miami is, you know, more right. For a movement as opposed to out in the coastal areas. And I think part of that is because of we haven't had that, we haven't had that, that the injustice society that that there's many more pressure down here. It's easier to see. It's easier to, it's getting to the point now where it's easier to look out and see the forest for the trees and realize, and this is a wasteland. You know, the, the, the, the police don't care about us. The governments care about us. The thing, our healthcare way, they're putting us in prison for anything now. Our school suck. There's no more jobs anymore or any jobs that we have down here at this point, our like military or you're going to be a Walmart or Amazon distribution center in water. That's pretty much it.

Speaker 5 16:23

Yeah. That was a chart maybe two weeks ago showing the, the major employers in every state and there was this big swath of Walmart and then what remained in the other states was either universities or medical, like medical hospital conglomerates, like just these three, the heme auths and Othame. Walmart was like almost the entirety of the south east and the south and even up a little bit into the Harlins. Also prisons.

Speaker 4 16:57

Yeah. I think maybe there was one, whether it was a prison. Yeah. I cannot wait to win national as Walmart. It's going to be sweet.

Speaker 5 17:04

I cannot wait until we, we nationalized Walmart and Amazon and we use that for our fully automated, the beginning of our fully automated rain and then destroy nations and borders. And then, you know, obviously it won't be nationalized. It'll be communal lies.

Speaker 4 17:24

Hey, what's a good word? We're almost there. Uh, Doug Jones will lead the revolution now. Doug, Doug Jones, and we'll compromise for everyone. There's an extent to which I think that that is true, that you know, more liberal areas tend to favor more material or economic appeasement over more southern areas tend to

Speaker 1 17:50

that tend to focus on, you know, cultural signifiers. But there's a reason why the Black Panthers got started in Oakland and there's a reason why the Rodney king riots, uh, you know, there's the, you know, tons of black interactions have happened in places like La. And that's because like a big part, especially in in southern California, a big part of that area was sort of seen as like this new white homeland and it has a really deep history of some really, really ugly white supremacy going on that not a whole lot of people in California talk about or or even are aware of. And it's like Michael, Ian Black and Megan Mccain, you know, getting together and saying, you know, maybe we're not that different after all. It's like, yeah, no you're right. Y'All aren't different.

Speaker 4 18:47

No, no. Michael, Ian Black has been like, he's been on the south, so harbor here recently and we talked about him and like for the last couple of podcasts, but like he, he, he had a great point. Someone's talking about him. Like he is a perfect product of this, of this liberal environment that creates, that is like ripe for appeasement and that like, and like that's enough and like, because he's someone that you can say, listen the south worse off than you and blame them. Blame the working class down there. They're all stupid. They don't [inaudible]. I came in, he's making jokes about how like Alabama, just like what did, she didn't exist anymore and we'd all be a better place off forward and like those kinds of jokes just go to further service, cultural divide because everyone down south was an elitist saying, look what they think about us

Speaker 5 19:28

and it's further dehumanizing and turning people into, into others and and things and thinking. Again, when you turn people into things or into, into nonhumans, the door is then open to consider them things that can be bought and sold, not explicitly relating to slavery but that you could could buy loyalty by giving some companies a tax cuts so that they come into the right area that you can treat everything through this lens of the economy. There's a, there's an old political cartoon of what people think being president is like and it's president Obama with to leap two levers on his desk and one is taxes high and low and the other one is gas prices high and low. Yeah, that's not what it's about.

Speaker 4 20:20

That's how it was my Alabama government book. You just had that picture in there.

Speaker 6 20:23

The liberal elites have this, they saw, so cs is votes like is a big thing, just votes to pass the legislation that they want. For example, in the 2016 election, there were all these pictures of a look at all these southern and flyover states. They all voted red. Uh, which they should, we should get rid of all of them. They don't matter. And then recently, uh, with the Alabama Senate election, all these people that never have they given a fuck about Alabama. They've never even thought about Alabama or, uh, you know, are what problems we have. But as soon as, uh, the Senate election came up and it, there was a possibility of them getting another, uh, Democratic senator, then everyone, oh dear Alabama, I care about you so much, please do the right thing. And it just came off as so just disingenuous because these people don't care about us. The Democratic Party doesn't care about us. They've never cared about Alabama, uh, Lena Dunham or whatever.

Speaker 4 21:27

Yeah. Alex, you know why? It's because there's too many Marxists stand an Alabama causing trouble writing medium articles.

Speaker 1 21:36

How dare they use true a voice. How dare you not take what the Democratic National Committee is giving you and vote for it and willingly say, please, may we have another smaller scraps please. Empty suit. Worthless liberal. Yeah. Yeah. How dare you not take what we are giving you. How dare you reject us.

Speaker 4 22:02

Bow Down at the throne of Al Di Gio, Donna Anna. So he had a, he had to come after us.

Speaker 6 22:08

I am so sorry that you went through that Alex. That was, yeah, that was disgusting. It was pretty, it was pretty funny to be honest. The see that like Howard Dean quote tweeted me that I, that was great. Thanks. That I met. I matters so much, right. I'm a medium article is going to sway the election that like all of these uh, liberal powerful people in the liberal establishment had to come after me. That was so bizarre. Really more than anything. So it was funny and, and you were actually laughing. Yeah, I'm not, I was not mad or nude online. You will read online, but that's just the default state of

Speaker 4 22:52

it. It was, that was, that was something else. I've never, I am, cause I'm not, is online is Alex's and I'd never seen anything like that before in my entire life. Yeah, that was wild.

Speaker 1 23:03

And I think one of the, one of the funniest things, funny in a kind of sad way is how so many, so many liberals online in the punditocracy whatever. They were like Alabamians need to vote for Doug Jones because that will help Alabamians it's like, hold on, this guy's running for fucking Senate. Yeah. Like he doesn't have, he's not going to be able to control the state. Thank you. And the Senate has never done anything good. Thank you. Anybody in this country ever? So it's like,

Speaker 4 23:38

I think we had talked about that like with, I mean Alex and Ian Hunter had talked about that recently about how like aiming that was Roy Moore. Like day to day, nothing was gonna change in Alabama.

Speaker 6 23:49

Yeah. Roy Morris. Absolutely terrible. But yeah, it's just going to be the same. It's going to be the same in Alabama essentially. If he got elected, I mean, and even like it, it's not as if he, Doug Jones with some sort of massive progressive, you know, he's not gonna make that much of a difference in the Senate either. I, uh, I guarantee you that he's going to vote with Republicans every once in a while because he wants to seem middle of the road or whatever. He's always, he's already talked about how he's considered a voting with Republicans and he's not, he's not come out. Well, they are, they've already voted on the, the, the tax bill. But before they voted on it, he came out and said, well, I don't know if I, if I was in the Senate right now, maybe I would vote, uh, for the tax cuts. I'm not sure there, Doug Jones is not a savior.

Speaker 4 24:41

No, Jones isn't going to make anything better for anyone down here. I, he, he's milk toast. He had it, he had a campaign ad received, would compromise his way of the civil war. Like he's not going to help anybody. Um, he's, you know, he, he, he backed entrepreneurs and small businesses. Overworkers um, he doesn't want single payer, uh, school for him. Like his education plan was more about how can we make kids more marketable to businesses then actually like making, you know, these children better people and not, it wasn't about like them learning more. I mean that's how it's like, it's like, hey, if we put stem in the schools and more trade schools in there, they can go out and be better for our businesses and that'll have Alabama out with our economy. And so it was nothing about actually helping us. It was just, well, how can I sell this to other people to come to this state to give me more money.

Speaker 5 25:35

I know we touched on it briefly that some of the largest employers there are a walnut and also the military and military contractors. Do you feel like this emphasis on the military as a source of jobs and as a source of economic benefits to Alabama ties into this us versus them narrative between y'all and the antiwar coastal elites?

Speaker 6 26:06

Well, yeah, they, the military industrial complexes, especially here in northern Alabama, which is where I'm from. Uh, Huntsville specifically, that's where the main source of jobs are. Your right in Huntsville is through the military, through the dod as to whether or not it plays into us versus them with the coastal elites. I'm not sure. I think people in Alabama or certainly jingoistic right. But, uh, jingoism is not exclusive to Alabama and so I'm on the North Alabama, uh, DSA organizing committee and we a bylaw that's banned police officers and law enforcement from our membership. Whenever we did that, we got a ton of backlash. Now we would get backlash anywhere if we did that right. Anywhere in the country probably. But we got to a lot of particular backlash from people in Huntsville because they worked, there were a lot of people that worked for the dod there and they saw an attack on law enforcement as an attack on people at work for the state. So being employed by the state, through the military or the dod, certainly it when your, when your income is tied to that, right. It's, it's easier to see an attack on the state or the military. Industrial Complex is an attack on yourself. And your, you know, on attack on you personally. So I do see, I could see it as definitely it's tying into

Speaker 1 27:38

that. I can't remember who, who the quote is from, but there is a, there's a quote to the effect of it is difficult to get a person to see the truth when their paycheck depends on them not seeing it. And I'm pretty sure it's Noam Chomsky and that sounds like, that sounds like Chaucer's. So I was like [inaudible]. Yeah, that's another Snapple FAC.

Speaker 5 28:01

As you were talking about being employed by the state. Um, it reminded me of the railing against lazy state workers about how, you know, all the state employees, they work for five years, they get a full pension, they retire, you go to a state office, you know, you go to the DMV or you go to the post office and you can, you can never actually get service or anything like that. That this aim to destroy the state apparatus in a way that doesn't enhance the lives of people who previously were working for the state, unlike maybe abolishing the state and doing so in a way that people who used to rely on the state have something else but rather to, to starve it with the exception of the military and the federal government's official elected positions. Life support operators.

Speaker 1 28:59

Oh yeah. And if you go a little bit farther up north, you had a Scott Walker talking about public sector employees getting things that private sector employees were not getting and then going to people and saying they're getting things your not so they shouldn't get them instead of what he should have been saying if he actually gave a shit about people is they're getting things you are not and it's unfair that you're not getting them. So you should get down to it. It's like, it's like when people talk about, um, uh, it w when a lot of liberals I know talk about why they don't support prison reform, you know, having adequate housing within prisons, having adequate food and being able to like reeducate yourself, getting healthcare and they're, I don't get those things. It's like, yeah, no, that's terrible. You should get those things. We should also give it to prisoners because we're not fucking animals. Like,

Speaker 6 29:53

and that, that, that can be applied to people that are on welfare too.

Speaker 5 29:56

Yeah. The fact that federal employment is, especially employment in the U sps was historically one of the few ways that black women especially had to get into secure nonservice injured industry or quasi nonservice industry positions. And I don't know how much of the attack on public sector employees is related to that.

Speaker 1 30:25

I think it's significant. Yeah. Yeah. Because a lot of times when I see or hear of the public sector being portrayed, it is very diverse and it's, you know, it's, it's diverse because it was intentionally that way. You have a lot of people who come from poorer backgrounds who come from a minority communities. There's a lot of women in public sector employment. And I think a big part of why that backlash is, is, you know, for the same reason why there's a backlash against communities of color, even if it's not coded in that kind of language, we all see the same thing down there, I'm sure.

Speaker 6 31:06

Um, right. I, I of course, uh, although I, I see a lot of more attack on the Obama care and welfare in general and in very, uh, not so much coated. It's kind of obvious, but you know, uh, sort of coded terms to re or to rail against poor black communities.

Speaker 5 31:26

And Alex, you mentioned being part of the, the North Alabama DSA organizing committee. Uh, how is that going and how has it been trying to spend something up there? Uh,

Speaker 6 31:37

it's, it's been, it's been going good, you know, better than you would think. Right? We have about, um, officially 30 members. Um, most of our activities take place in Huntsville, which is the big city in North Alabama. I say it's been, it had been going better because that will, for example, that law enforcement van that we passed on the membership, I expected that to get a lot of backlash, but actually it was passed unanimously. No one, no one opposed it. And in fact, I got emails from people that weren't at the meeting, um, telling me, can you record my vote in favor? So what I've been seeing, uh, personally is people that are getting involved with socialist organizations here in the south, they tend, they tend to be a lot more radical than seemingly the people who are involved in source socialist organizations. Uh, in coastal cities or up north or whatever.

Speaker 5 32:33

The Social Democrats tend to go where you can get Social Democrats elected, which tends to like

Speaker 6 32:39

the coasts I'd imagine. Right, right. Yeah. Because if you're going to be attacked for being a communist, he might as well actually just be a communist. Right? Yeah. So how's it been going? Mostly what we've been doing so far is, you know, organizational building, getting bylaws passed, figuring out exactly what we want to do. We've done a few protests. We did, we got a lot of coverage for our first two protests, which were against the confederate monument and the Huntsville. And we did a protest against Trump whenever he came here. The biggest struggle we've had. I think it's finding allies with other organizations that are already here because most of the organizations that are already here that are left leaning, quote unquote left leaning or are like liberal groups, very liberal, like I'm invisible for example, is one of the bigger ones. And then other than that, there's, you know, there is the Green party, but they're hardly here. Um, and the Democrats have nothing to do with us. But I bring up the, the liberal organizations because since we're, so we're more radical than, you know, a, a DSA chapter would be in up north or on a coastal city. These liberal groups is seemingly just ignore us. Right? They don't want to have anything to do with us. I've tried, when I tried talking to, into visible, for example, um, to stage a protest, uh, over, uh, I forget what it was, I think it was, um, they were going to pass a bill, a defending Obamacare and, uh, we were going to stage a protest and we wanted to, you know, reach out to, into visible, cause they got a lot of numbers, right. And we wanted to, you know, coordinate and they just completely ignored me. AW gene over here talked to the two, one of them in person, right. And said, hey, can we, you know, coordinate things? And he said, sure, just contact me and gave him his email and everything and never heard back.

Speaker 4 34:39

Yeah. It's been pretty, um, disheartening I'd say from individuals. Been kind of quiet. The local like county dem parties are, I don't think we've seen them in any protests we've done. Would you say? So Alex? I don't think I've seen one. I haven't seen them, but yeah. And so in, in that has been kind of a whore port. We do have a couple people that we're working with in the community that because of their job or whatever other reason, they can't get involved with DSA. What, they're very familiar, they're sympathetic to what we're doing. And so that's been nice and they're involved in other organizations and so that helps us maintain a foothold with them. Kind of a, a inner organizational relationship. So that's been good. But North Alabama, I mean, you know, I'm not, I am I gene and mount on the EOC or anything like that. So, uh, I'm not really privy to what Alex knows as being on the Osi.

Speaker 5 35:37

It's

Speaker 1 35:38

hearing you guys talk about the organizing work that you've been doing. I feel like, yeah, that's a, it sounds pretty similar. Like you're, the only difference is I think because we, especially like right here in the North Bay, there's a pretty big hippy holdover community. So there's a bunch of sort of like liberal progressive groups and causes that

Speaker 5 36:03

sort of our

Speaker 1 36:05

kind of low key anti capitalist, but like kind of not really there. The gateway drug for DSA. Yeah, they're the gateway drug for DSA. So I think that there's, there's at least, um,

Speaker 5 36:17

okay,

Speaker 1 36:17

a easier time that we're having finding people to actually work with, even if we don't really share the same longterm goals. But there's also a lot of groups that we can poach from.

Speaker 5 36:29

I think one of the things that the left struggled with for a long time with that we were all fishing from an incredibly tiny pool. And now this pool is expanding, but there's still a lot of inter pollination. And my metaphor just expanded from a pond to the time meadow. But you know, there's a lot of crosspollination going, which is great for building links but also means you can end up with like the same five people that you see at something every single time when you kind of start to maybe get sick of seeing each other's faces. Not that I actually do get sick of seeing anybody's faces, but you're kind of like, is there anybody else here who's actually doing, showing up to things?

Speaker 1 37:09

Also, liberals had been poisoning the well for decades. So

Speaker 4 37:12

yeah, I think we kind of see that we're like, cause album doesn't have as big a problem. Is it near north? They would have or um, and so like our, one of the things that know, they've talked about at the meetings and even like with the podcast is the idea of, okay, well let's just, let's forget about the palm then because everyone in the pond is already like involved anyways or knows about us anyway. So the idea now is um, and really trying to develop the rank and file strategy of how do we go to people who aren't even near the pond. Um, but we know, you know, because of working class because they're leaving the system, you know, how do we go to them and develop them what we're trying to do.

Speaker 5 37:53

I feel like that's what probably would serve most DSA chapters personally. It's been something I've been afraid to do because I fear failing at it. But it seems like it would be one of our better avenues for, for expanding our impact and forming a better world rather than just being a a reading club.

Speaker 4 38:17

Yeah. And I think part of that is like in our members, like interim chapters here is like, I think that has to be a group effort. Like you don't want to bring people, you don't want to have one member doing that or even couple members doing that because if the whole chapter isn't on board there wasn't ready to make that step. When you're in these new people who aren't necessarily ready yet. They're not part of the pawn yet though they get scared away because of the different ideas and you and personalities that are present. So they, it Kinda has to be this chapter initiative too. Hey listen, we as a chapter, we're coming together. We're going to have our own inner training within our own chapter to say, you know, are you ready to make that step and Lena, are you? Cause if we're going to be, we're going to be bringing folks in who may be more conservative or who are liberals or anyone else. Um, you know, not, and not scare them off, but like don't say, don't tell one person who's been here the first time ever. Don't go into a long diatribe with him about why Joseph Stalin was actually a great person.

Speaker 5 39:18

Are you ready to help these people become your comrades rather than tell them you are not my comrade. Bugger off.

Speaker 4 39:24

Yes. Um, uh, have you seen our PR? Have you seen our purity test? I'm so glad you've come to this meeting. Now take our, what kind of Socialists are you? Quiz?

Speaker 5 39:36

Oh No, it turns out your blind kist

Speaker 1 39:40

yeah. So, so to, to talk about like outreach and organizing. So, so y'all been doing most of your workout in Huntsville, right? Most of it, yes. Yeah, I'm going say it. Yeah. So, and that's a, it's a fairly, um, I'm assuming a kind of a small urban core with a large suburbs surrounding it. Mostly

Speaker 4 40:01

very, very small urban core and like mostly suburbs. Yeah. It's a, it's a weird city. The weight, it's history, but it's pretty much all suburb.

Speaker 1 40:09

Yeah. I mean that's basically Santa Rosa to yeah.

Speaker 5 40:12

The Huntsville is, if you took the normal MIP and you took the normal urban core and um, you took your hand and you smooshed it down and so that the urban core just kind of spread outwards. Um, it's, it's almost kind of maybe Texas, like in the fact that there's no real spot you could point to and say, yeah. That that's the center. Am I kind of kind of getting the right impression?

Speaker 4 40:37

Yeah, I would a hundred percent agree. I mean, I think it's because hustle was a new, is a new city. You know, 60 years ago, Huntsville was like 5,000 people and it's only because of the military base that's there right now that it's, you know, 4,000 people now. And so by the time now she started building the city we had already, you know, it was, we started building it. It was very middle class because of the military base. They are all the jobs in the military base, um, and all engineering jobs and stuff like that. So you didn't have as much need for like a steep, typical downtown or urban, um, services or even like urban planning. So I just started building neighborhoods everywhere as, sorry about the suburbs everywhere. So, uh, yeah, we made me hustle. Maybe has like four blocks our downtown. That's it. In a city of 400,000 people. That's right.

Speaker 5 41:26

Wild. Yeah. I imagine that that means that a lot of, I mean, even more so than the average American city, that people are very reliant on private cars or Uber or Lyft because there's not much, if any, public transit. And so very tied to having, having your own wheels too, to be able to, to do anything

Speaker 6 41:55

100%. Uh, in fact, we had, um, someone from the homeless community come to our last meeting and that was one of the concerns that he raised was that there's, the public transportation in Huntsville is horrible. And how, how are they supposed to get a job when everything is so spread apart in Huntsville? Uh, how are they supposed to get there if they're to rely on this public transportation that just isn't really, you know, it's not going to get them there in time on time. Right. Eh, they don't have cars. They're homeless. They have no money. Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's bad.

Speaker 4 42:31

I'm feeling such a kinship with y'all right now. Two people in mind at the church I go to, he, he broke his hip about a year ago and he lives a mile from downtown and he's been in his house was on any bus route at all. And there's no, and there wasn't any sidewalks in this neighborhood. So for six months he had to use an Uber everywhere he went. Oh my God, God, I can't even imagine how expensive that is. Exactly. I mean, so you're looking at, I mean he, he and he, he would come to church and be like, yeah, like I'm having to, you know, just pretty much he used manpower, self screw check. They're like paper getting around. Um, and so you know, in, in, in, and that was what people in church like helping out. Like, you know, anytime we could, you know, and drug bill in this house up in and pick stuff up. But you know, if you got to go to the doctor or go see, um, you know, their groceries and there's no one available, Amino did pick you up. You got to get Uber. And so he was using, he was probably using Uber, you said twice a day, you know, which for someone who's, you know, just on retirement, that's, that's not a lot of money.

Speaker 6 43:32

It's even worse outside of Huntsville. Right. We, we represent technically the top five, I think it's the top five counties in Alabama. Yeah. Yeah. It's even worse out in the outside of Huntsville where everything is really a rural,

Speaker 4 43:47

well IOM and Navistar shutting down those like the hospitals, some of these rural counties that it's like some, some counties don't even have a hospital anymore.

Speaker 6 43:54

Yeah you have to drive like an hour to get there. Yup.

Speaker 5 43:58

And then if you need emergency services you're probably your only option for ambulance service is a privately owned ambulance service that will charge you out the Wazoo.

Speaker 4 44:07

I didn't know there were publicly owned Amazon services and talked four years ago. I always thought they were all privately owned. That's hurray. I yeah I mean cause even like in mobile where I'm from it's they're all probably in there too. That's is just as big of a city.

Speaker 5 44:23

It blows my mind that there is such a thing as private ambulances and you have to check and purposefully asked for like a non for like a public ambulance if, if you need one rather than taking a private ambulance that this is something where it's something that could, could exist and be something that you don't realize until it happens to you. And nobody is, is making more of more of a fuss about how fucked up that is. Did you know they were like public Amiens is, I mean, not really, but you know.

Speaker 4 45:01

Okay. Yeah. That's it. That sounds even now it sounds strange to me.

Speaker 5 45:05

Yeah. Privatize everything obviously. And then eventually you will end up having your ambulance service provided by Uber I'm sure. And you'll self driving Tesla

Speaker 1 45:19

ambulance. Okay. Before, before I go on a murderous rampage. Khalil Mack here.

Speaker 4 45:30

Yeah. Y'all need to like invade silicon valley. I've got to get rid of them.

Speaker 1 45:33

Yeah. Ooh Boy. Oh boy, don't, yeah. Yeah. Fucking silicon valley. Um, so, so the way that we solve all of our problems is that we pack up silicon valley, send them down y'alls way, and then you can deal with them.

Speaker 4 45:49

Is that, can we do that? And then you can eat them. I would love to have like five minutes mark Zuckerberg and the thunder dome situation. Please come. We just get beyond funded. Sorry.

Speaker 1 46:08

No, but the question that I wanted to ask was, um, I think even in the leftist community there's a pretty big divide that we're only with like really bright now. Sort of like bridging between the more traditional coastal far left liberals or like actual leftists and folks in the south who a lot of, a lot of, uh, you know, coastal's don't really even see as existing down there. So what's the, not the solution, but like what's solidarity, what does it mean that to, to actually like be, be working together across these disparate regions and you know, trying to, trying to create a, I don't want to say a nationalist left us culture cause nationalism has it unifies a federated leftist culture. Yeah.

Speaker 5 47:03

Or, or maybe what would, what would solidarity with more coastal, with more, more privileged, geographically privileged I guess. Does that count? Does that, yeah,

Speaker 1 47:15

capital is definitely, yeah. You know, concentrated geographically.

Speaker 5 47:18

Yeah. What, what would solidarity with, with those groups, those chapters, um, those comrades kind of look like to you?

Speaker 4 47:30

I think with, um, so I know in North Alabama we just, we were just accepted as he sick sister city for a DC DSA. Um, and if the first sister program, like anyone's done it done in the, in the nation for a DSA chapter, and that is solidarity. I mean, that, I mean in, that's a very privileged chap, if not, I say if a pooch chapter, but it's a, it's a much bigger chapter with a lot more resources than we have. And, and they've reached out to us and said, we know we're here to help and we're here to help y'all grow. And here's, you know, here's all the resources we have. Here's the knowledge we have. What do you need to help out down south?

Speaker 6 48:11

And, um, I think, uh, I think it's publicly known. Gene, you were at the DSA national convention? Yeah. Last year. Or was it last year? Yeah, almost last year. My very close to last year. It might be last year when, when we published those was August. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, anyway, um, you were at a, you were at that and, uh, the way that the national convention is set up, um, we're, the rural south doesn't really have that. Like does it have as many votes compared to, uh, the more coastal, uh, northern and northern, uh, regions? Right. So whenever there was a concern that the rural south had, uh, we were kind of out voted anyway. Or like if, if, if, um, they didn't, if the, these larger chapters didn't listen to us. Uh, and I think Jean, you said that there was one, I can't remember the name of the chapter that actually listened to what y'all had to say. Right. And a would change their votes.

Speaker 4 49:13

Yeah. So we were, so, and this is, and I guess this is a precursor, like this is before we formed the southern caucus, which we formed at the convention. Um, so the first one night before we formed that caucus, um, me and the other Alabama delegates just kind of sit in the back and we just, by happenstance, we're sitting next to the la table. And, um, I guess the way La had done it for their, like their vote for the delegates is that they had had a lift on how the chapter had voted for or against a certain issue. And so what they were telling us is that if it was a tossup among the chapter, they told the delegates to get vote however they want to do. And then, so they were sitting next to us and they kind of hurt, you know, I was talking to mentioned Alabama. And so I'm about three or four of them came over and said, hey, you know, um, this is a tossup for our chapter in La. You know, what's, you know, what's, uh, what's, uh, what's Alabama thinking, you know, what are y'alls feelings? And, um, we talked to him about it and eventually what happened was, uh, they were, they would talk to us and anything that was a tossup for them is la. They would talk to us and then tell and empowered. I tell the delegates, hey, here's what Alabama wants to do. Um, you know, let's let with them. And so there was like that that blew my mind. I never thought except for like La was gonna reach out to a small chapter like us, um, you know, with our four voting members or no three voting members and Alabama and ask, you know, what we thought on the issue and then like express that solidarity with us.

Speaker 5 50:40

It's a really hot woman. Yeah, I have, I have couple of calm rights in La and I had a couple of come rights and uh, the DC metro chapter and building solidarity with, with more central non coastal chapters is something that I ideally, I would like to see you every chapter able to communicate with and share resources with every other chapter. That was one of the things that had, I made it onto the NPC. I wanted to do, um, of course at this point, I'm very glad I didn't make it onto the NPC. Um, but so that, so the chapters can form links with each other and become interdependent rather than being, being siloed off into, you know, you'll regional concerns and then maybe one or maybe two if you're lucky. National concerns that we are more aware of what's going on with our comrades who may not be right next door to us or right. Sitting next to us at a convention, expanding our consciousness man.

Speaker 4 51:49

Yeah. And, and setting up like actual institutions and structures that, that make it just way easier to actually coordinate with other chapters, both regionally and across the states. Like that would be nice. That's a, that's a pipe dream for 2019 for the, uh, the new constitution.

Speaker 5 52:10

I know there is the, the rural chapters, a working group and I'm, I'm interested and excited to see what's, what comes out of that. Are you all part of that working group? Um, we're part of the, uh, uh, southern Earth Dsa, southern caucus. But, uh,

Speaker 4 52:27

I'm in the working group. Yeah. I'm, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going help out with that. I haven't been able to get on any phone calls. Oh, Starbuck, excuse me. Um, yeah. How do we all need phone calls just because of work? Uh, just too much work to do. Um, but I am done working with them. I'm, I'm more excited about working with the southern caucus because that was kind of, um, just cause that was a recent invention and then we formed the African invention and it seems to be going really well so far. So, uh, I do want to say for solidarity purposes on if you're a cause, I think it was highlighted when Alex wrote her article. Um, there was a lot of people who said they were part of DSA and we're like being paternalistic towards Alex about being like, well, you know, we know better about what Alabama needs, um, and your articles highlighting all the bad parts of the south and you should just vote for Doug Jones and how dare you write an article, not voting for a democrat. And there was more than one like self professed DSA member online talking like giving out shit for what she wrote and so that isn't solidarity. So I'll point that out. Yeah, I saw that and I thought that was weird because I don't, I don't know of any, I can't think of any like DSA member that I know is a DSA member that I've interacted with who would be anything other than, I mean I guest star Jones.

Speaker 5 53:51

Uh, I, I can, um, people have that blind spots and that there are people who would say, well, maybe if we vote them in then we can apply the thumbscrews. Like,

Speaker 6 54:05

rather than realizing that no, a lot of the pressure comes from whether or not you vote for them. Once you've voted for them, you have no leverage. Yeah. If liberal elites can count on your vote, one, no matter what, because they're going to be running against a republican than they have no incentive to listen to what you have to say because you're going to vote for them anyway. Absolutely. Yeah. You see that a lot with the New York Democrats and the California Democrats.

Speaker 5 54:33

That's the California Democratic convention yelling at the California Nurses Association when they were trying to get their concerns about single payer addressed like that. You have no other choice. So you're gonna take this unlike like it

Speaker 4 54:52

one of these episodes, I swear to God, it's just going to be me screaming invective at the Democratic Party in California for an hour

Speaker 6 55:01

probably will not be on that episode. That sounds like a great episode. We would, we would, uh, we would have an episode screaming about the Alabama Democratic Party, but I don't know where they're at. So

Speaker 4 55:12

they're so ineffective down here. Um, one of the stories I'd like to highlight about the aloe Democratic Party. We've had our chairwoman down here, his name was Nancy Warley and she's just, I don't know what she's done honestly. Um, and it was to lose seats in Alabama as the chairwoman. And, but a couple of years ago she sent out like a Christmas letter to all the, you know, democratic officials in the state. And some journalists got ahold of it and it was like part of the article. It was nothing about like the, what the Democrats were planning or any other stuff and like the tone of it was very jovial and like she was telling a story about how she got stuck in the toilet and it was, to me that was the perfect like, okay, this is the Alto Democratic Party. Like they do nothing. They make jokes and I'm talking about funny things that happened to them and then that's it. Like that's that's absolutely yet, um,

Speaker 6 56:00

so the, the Alabama Democratic Party is a white woman stuck on a toilet telling everybody about it. Oh my God. That's,

Speaker 4 56:07

yeah, that's perfect. Someone's drawn that picture here. One of the donkey just put up a picture of a white woman stuck around. Poor John.

Speaker 6 56:14

You do have to have something in there that's labeled debt in all uppercase. Otherwise it won't be a legitimate political cartoon. The Ben Garrison Trump like holding the door shut with his muscles, bulging

Speaker 4 56:24

out.

Speaker 5 56:25

Oh my God. Please somebody listening to this. If, if you have, if you've been inspired by this to draw it, we would love to see it. Yeah. Get Ben Garrison on the phone. I mean, I'll make that the episode, our episode artwork. I mean,

Speaker 1 56:46

oh, we're running, we're running about an hour right now. Uh, is there anything else that we haven't touched on today that you all want it to, to talk about?

Speaker 5 56:55

We'll holler about if you want it. Um,

Speaker 4 57:00

I appreciate the, um, I've seen a lot lately. I appreciate the coastal inclusion of the word y'all into the leftist vernacular now. Um, I think I saw that epic had mentioned where the people on stage like, Hey, by the way, y'all was a great,

Speaker 5 57:15

I'm neutral.

Speaker 4 57:17

Oh wait to address her Laurel. Yeah, exactly. It's perfect. And, and so I, it really does warm my heart to hear people from the coast seeing y'all. Uh, so

Speaker 1 57:26

I mean, I've been saying in my whole life, cause there's like sauces talked about it before, but this is like the liminal space between like coastal liberal and the redneck rural. So we got a, we, there were a ton of people who came up like Okies and stuff like that. Who, who came up into California

Speaker 5 57:46

pray y'all, uh, across the, across the state here. So you still can't get decent cornbread here though. No, of course not. It's so easy though. Cold Red is like, it's, it's such an easy recipe. I will bring this up like four ingredients. How can you mess that up exactly. Apparently by putting like cheese and actual corn in it. Yes. Yeah. Four ingredients is far too few for California. Who Puts Asheville colon in it? That sounds really weird. Well, that was a debt that was a del Monte promotional, how to spice up your corn cornbread, add around about thanksgiving. And every single one of them included a can of del Monte corn. Niblets and I was, I was screaming, I, I learned to make cornbread while I was living in the south. And that's also when I adopted y'all, um, as a word and also y'all as people, um, or became one of y'all. I'm not, whichever one of those doesn't sound paternalistic and horrible. Um, and that's when he became kin folk. Um, just seeing that can of corn. Just like, I was literally hollering like, no, no, that does not go anywhere near. Ah,

Speaker 4 58:59

I'll tell you what the peppers and cold bread is a is a really good race.

Speaker 5 59:03

Hell are going to find a way to ruin grits next. I bet.

Speaker 4 59:06

Okay. Alex, you can Alex, you can not talk about grits.

Speaker 5 59:11

Sweet or savory. Grits. Save. It just creates savory to people. Eat Sweet. No God to put cheese

Speaker 6 59:22

on grids. Do not put anything in them except for like butter. That's it. That's all you need. And it's, it's delicious cheese.

Speaker 1 59:31

I don't know. We put honey in our grits out here. What the yeah,

Speaker 4 59:36

well yeah, why I go get it.

Speaker 1 59:41

We're California were broken man

Speaker 4 59:46

to say avocado. Kale. Right. I'm going to be in the bags.

Speaker 6 59:50

Yeah. That, that's why we can't afford houses because we are buying old. The Avocado to put on toast and then also adding it into every single other item of food.

Speaker 4 1:00:00

It's no longer Adobe houses. It's avocado houses.

Speaker 6 1:00:07

Pretty good waterproofing cause it's what? Almost entirely fat. What morally good.

Speaker 4 1:00:13

You know, honestly, I'm surprised they don't call like grits, like polenta soup out in California because they don't want to use the word grit. Sounds too hillbilly.

Speaker 1 1:00:21

I mean, yeah, it's, yeah, people just call it like, I've literally had polenta out here and I eat it and I'm like this same planet. They should grits. All right, well I think it's, I think it's a pretty good place to end a where can people find y'alls work?

Speaker 6 1:00:40

Um, you can find us on soundcloud. It's uh, the name of our podcast is Kudzu Commun. He also find us on Twitter at Kudzu commune and uh, more on all the podcast things, iTunes, whatever, whatever that

Speaker 4 1:00:56

iTunes pocket cast, stitcher or tune in Google play where even on there. So, uh, yeah, please, please go on Itunes, leave us a review because that helps us out and getting the word out there. Uh, we're finally getting a little bit bigger, so it's just kind of Nice. But uh, yeah, please follow us

Speaker 6 1:01:14

and remember, the only way that you can kill Kudzu is by completely cutting out the route. And that's, I'm guessing that's why you, y'all chose the name because, sure. South he's unkillable.

Speaker 4 1:01:28

Uh, yeah. That was it. You totally got it. It wasn't because we thought it was a cool name.

Speaker 1 1:01:37

Alright. Comrades and, uh, we will see you in less than one year to resurrect the spirit of John Brown. Yes, we're doing it. We're doing 100% all right. Sounds great. Comrades, go in peace. Be in solidarity. Solidarity.

Speaker 2 1:02:00

Thank you for listening to podcasts from the left coast media to connect with us on Twitter. You can email us@leftcoastpodcastatgmaildotcomandapatriotisatpatrion.com slash left coast media.